Tips on Tips, please

[WallStTo5thSt]

I was in AC at the Taj yesterday and played (and won) a ten person 50 + 15 sit and go (I know the rake is absolutely awful but I was just playing for fun). Anyway, this was my first tournament money of any kind in a casino. The game took an hour to deal. Before I was paid a poker room employee came to collect some information. She asked for my drivers license and social security number. When I told her I was reluctant to give out my ssn she assured me it wasn't for the IRS but she did not know why the information was collected (I wouldn't have had a problem if it were for the IRS). Then she was very aggressive and pressured me to tip the dealer, and said the average tip for such a game is $40. I was obviously going to tip the dealer but is $40 a little much for such a game? My questions are:

1) Why do they collect social security numbers if they are not for tax purposes?

and

2) What is a typical tip for tournament play as a % of your winnings and/or time spent dealing?


Any help or guidlines are greatly appreciated!

[AKQJ10]

I can't imagine that it WOULDN'T be for tax purposes, or at least that they wouldn't also have to collect it for tax purposes, if your winnings were over $600 (I think that's the threshold). But it sounds like you won about $250, no?, so that wouldn't make it to that threshold, so I have no idea.

I think 3-5% is usually considered a reasonable tip for a multi-table tournament, and I see no reason why that wouldn't apply to a sit-and-go. 8% would be a bit high IIRC.

[KenProspero]

The 'recommended' tip -- $40 is 16%.

That sounds a bit steep to me.

[The Armchair]

These are winner-take-all, no? So you get $500, minus your $65 buy in, or $435. You're tipping about 9%?

I honestly don't know if that is too high or not, but I want to frame the question.

Another way to look at it is foregone tips by a dealer. If the SnG took an hour, figure that he missed 30 hands had this been a ring game. That'd be about $25-35 in tips, and you should aim around there.

[WallStTo5thSt]

Yes, these are winner take all so $500. Still below the $600 threshold you spoke of, so the social security number thing is still a mystery. She explicitly said "This is not for the IRS."

So 3%-5% of your net winnings (winnings minus buy-in, minus casino rake) is typical?

[itsmarty]

I hope you gave a fake number....preferably something with 14 or more digits, including at least one "niner".

Martin

[Durs522]

I've been told by dealers they consider 10% a good tip in larger tournaments, not sure how that would apply to a $50 buy in single table. However if I won $500 I'd probably give around $40-$50.

[WallStTo5thSt]

Gave a fake number (123-45-6789 to be exact).

Thanks all for the advice.

~Rob

[Sykes]

So let me get this straight.

30% rake
Winner take all.
And dealer expects 10% rake? So out of the 435 you just won, they want 40? So you're only up $395?

Um.
[censored] that.

Seriously, [censored] them in the eye. Poker players get [censored] for comps while slot players WHO DON'T TIP AT ALL make infinite in comps.

If dealers want a 10% tip, tell them that they need to lower the rake to 10-15% percent.

If they're going to charge the rake at 30%, tell them that the sng's need to be $50+10+5 (10 for house and 5 for dealers).

I would never tip more than 2% in this game.

Seriously, if greg raymer had to tip the dealers 10% for his WSOP win, I bet you INFINITE that he would have told them to [censored] off.

Dealers do nothing besides doing their JOBS.

People should not get tips for doing their JOBS.

When was the last time you tipped a fast food employee?

In closing, [censored] tipping.

[Photoc]

The last time I won a 500.00 winner take all, I gave up 40 bucks for it. That rake is extremely high as well. But I can't see penalizing the dealer because the house is greedy.

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
The last time I won a 500.00 winner take all, I gave up 40 bucks for it. That rake is extremely high as well. But I can't see penalizing the dealer because the house is greedy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can. Sorry. You're a giant sucker.

Btw, let me ask you. What types of comps do you get for tipping the dealer $40? Is it nothing? That's about what I thought.

[Photoc]

WTF is your problem? Just because I'm a generous guy that I have to expect comps? You're an idiot for responding with such a condescending post. You've added absolutely nothing to this post worth reading except for attacking one persons point of view and opinion. How about posting thoughts of your own on the subject instead of looking at the negatives of other's posts?

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF is your problem? Just because I'm a generous guy that I have to expect comps? You're an idiot for responding with such a condescending post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because all I see are topics that say that poker players are useless.

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]

Because all I see are topics that say that poker players are useless.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well responses such as yours are worthless. End of conversation. I will not respond as you are another on ignore.

[minttea]

I wouldn't say he's a sucker - some people do things for reasons other than them being +EV. Some people like to be nice to other people, and some people just appreciate good service.

It's fine that you don't. But life isn't just EV to everyone, the dealer is a real person with a real life, too. Go on not tipping, but don't [censored] tell us not to.

And particularly if you're so profit-centric, I think you should give being envious of slot players a little thought. Give them all the comps in the world and they're still bleeding money.

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't say he's a sucker - some people do things for reasons other than them being +EV. Some people like to be nice to other people, and some people just appreciate good service.

It's fine that you don't. But life isn't just EV to everyone, the dealer is a real person with a real life, too. Go on not tipping, but don't [censored] tell us not to.

And particularly if you're so profit-centric, I think you should give being envious of slot players a little thought. Give them all the comps in the world and they're still bleeding money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look. I'm sorry that I'm a little harsh but I'm just being honest. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be nice, but there is a point between being nice and being a sucker.

The worst game in casinos is usually Keno and I'm pretty sure that the -EV is around 30% in the long term.

Craps/blackjack/baccaret(sp?) is a -EV about 0.5-1% in the long term and you can even beat the game using sound strategy and you still get comps like crazy.

Slots are no more than a -EV of 5-10% (probably even less if the signs with 99% money back in the long term is true). Again, no tipping and they get infinite comps.

I don't know the -EV of roulette but if you just bet on black and red, it can't be more than 4-5%. Again these people get comped alot.

So. Poker players everywhere are getting screwed. From what I hear, we get little in comps and the rake is worse than the worst game in vegas (Keno).

[minttea]

Well, I can certainly agree with the comps issue, and I can certainly imagine some slots being -1%. I guess the point of what I was saying is that the dealer is not the house...it's not the dealer that's screwing you for comps, the dealer probably hates the house just like most people hate their bosses.

I think the real losers are losing poker players, not 2+2ers. It's true that you don't get comps if you beat poker, but you're beating the game so that's fine. But if you're losing, and maybe even getting beat as badly as Keno, not getting decent comps is pretty awful.

I'm about as unsympathetic to casinos as anyone in the world, btw.

[dicelumpY2005]

Why are you being a douche? It's a harsh reality of the service industry: companies f--- the employees out of a decent wage and rely on the customers to make up for it... It happens in restaurants, bars, and even casinos... If you don't want to tip, for whatever reasons, fine... Don't come onto this message board and attack dealers for trying to earn a living...

[tubalkain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The last time I won a 500.00 winner take all, I gave up 40 bucks for it. That rake is extremely high as well. But I can't see penalizing the dealer because the house is greedy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can. Sorry. You're a giant sucker.

Btw, let me ask you. What types of comps do you get for tipping the dealer $40? Is it nothing? That's about what I thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares about the comps? The 30% rake should cover those. The $40 requested tip shows that the dealer is a douche, and shouldn't be tipped because he/she is a douche. Not because someone has an (illogical) moral objection to tipping, and not because the casinos rape the employees out of decent pay. It all comes down to the dealer's attitude.

[TomBrooks]

I think $20 ought to do it. $20 tip for an hours work isn't bad.

[InfernoLL]

If you work in an industry where customers have a choice whether to pay you or not (and how much) you deserve whatever you get, whether it's more than you need or nothing at all.

[juanez]

n/m

[IgorSmiles]

The house and the dealers make more money off cash games than these sngs. You can whine about the rake and you can choose not to tip, but that will only lead to the house not spreading the game. They may not spread these for long anyway.

If you think single table tournies are +EV for anything but satillites, you should stick to online.

Tip (5-10%), or get out of the kiddie pool and play some real poker.

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]

Who cares about the comps? The 30% rake should cover those. The $40 requested tip shows that the dealer is a douche, and shouldn't be tipped because he/she is a douche. Not because someone has an (illogical) moral objection to tipping, and not because the casinos rape the employees out of decent pay. It all comes down to the dealer's attitude.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you didn't read the first post entirely or correctly. The poster never said the dealer asked or suggested a tip. Here is the original post...
[ QUOTE ]
Before I was paid a poker room employee came to collect some information. She asked for my drivers license and social security number. When I told her I was reluctant to give out my ssn she assured me it wasn't for the IRS but she did not know why the information was collected (I wouldn't have had a problem if it were for the IRS). Then she was very aggressive and pressured me to tip the dealer, and said the average tip for such a game is $40.

[/ QUOTE ]

So before you start attacking the dealer without knowing the facts, please read and figure out what is going on first. The dealer never did anything, another employee did it. In fact, the post doesn't even say if the employee was a cage worker, floorperson, manager, or anything else, just an "poker room employee" would could include all of the previous people and more.

[IgorSmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Who cares about the comps? The 30% rake should cover those. The $40 requested tip shows that the dealer is a douche, and shouldn't be tipped because he/she is a douche. Not because someone has an (illogical) moral objection to tipping, and not because the casinos rape the employees out of decent pay. It all comes down to the dealer's attitude.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you didn't read the first post entirely or correctly. The poster never said the dealer asked or suggested a tip. Here is the original post...
[ QUOTE ]
Before I was paid a poker room employee came to collect some information. She asked for my drivers license and social security number. When I told her I was reluctant to give out my ssn she assured me it wasn't for the IRS but she did not know why the information was collected (I wouldn't have had a problem if it were for the IRS). Then she was very aggressive and pressured me to tip the dealer, and said the average tip for such a game is $40.

[/ QUOTE ]

So before you start attacking the dealer without knowing the facts, please read and figure out what is going on first. The dealer never did anything, another employee did it. In fact, the post doesn't even say if the employee was a cage worker, floorperson, manager, or anything else, just an "poker room employee" would could include all of the previous people and more.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's pretty obvious that it is not a dealer asking for tips. It is a floor person reminding the player to tip the dealers because the players in this game arent tipping.

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
The house and the dealers make more money off cash games than these sngs. You can whine about the rake and you can choose not to tip, but that will only lead to the house not spreading the game. They may not spread these for long anyway.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry but I don't know any cash game where they make more than $150 an hour. Even at 2/4 where the rake is mostly likely $4 80-90%, at 30-35 hands an hours that's about $120-140.

Also, I could care less about these games at 30% rake. These games are for suckers. I need the suckers at the cash game to play hands like 83o.

[juanez]

The house and the dealers make more money off cash games than these sngs. You can whine about the rake and you can choose not to tip, but that will only lead to the house not spreading the game. They may not spread these for long anyway.

Exactly. We're considering doing away with all sit-n-goes because of the whining and only doing bigger scheduled tourneys. I was working the floor last night and I had a guy tell me he "hates this place" because we didn't end up running a SNG after he waited for a few hours for a list to develope, but we never got enough interest. He just sat there for 2 hours smoking his cigarettes waiting for a $40 tourney to kick off....lol. I guess he was used to internet SNG's getting filled every 5 minutes or something.

Like you said "get out of the kiddie pool and play some real poker" ..... while you wait for a SNG at least. Don't bitch about a SNG not going and blame the poker room for the lack of interest in the one single game that YOU'RE interested in when nobody else is interested.

Whoops - way off topic. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
The house and the dealers make more money off cash games than these sngs. You can whine about the rake and you can choose not to tip, but that will only lead to the house not spreading the game. They may not spread these for long anyway.

Exactly. We're considering doing away with all sit-n-goes because of the whining and only doing bigger scheduled tourneys. I was working the floor last night and I had a guy tell me he "hates this place" because we didn't end up running a SNG after he waited for a few hours for a list to develope, but we never got enough interest. He just sat there for 2 hours smoking his cigarettes waiting for a $40 tourney to kick off....lol. I guess he was used to internet SNG's getting filled every 5 minutes or something.

Like you said "get out of the kiddie pool and play some real poker" ..... while you wait for a SNG at least. Don't bitch about a SNG not going and blame the poker room for the lack of interest in the one single game that YOU'RE interested in when nobody else is interested.

Whoops - way off topic. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You're an idiot. Casino's make more of a sng with 30% rake than they do with cash games.

[IgorSmiles]

Sorry Sykes, but youre wrong. And these sngs often take 2 hours.

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry Sykes, but youre wrong. And these sngs often take 2 hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

OP said that the game lasted an hour. I don't care what they usually take. I'm going by the information given to me. And with the information given to me, I can correctly state that these games are making more money for the house and maybe making more money for the dealer at $40 tip.

[IgorSmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
I can correctly state that these games are making more money for the house and maybe making more money for the dealer at $40 tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's very rare to correctly state anything when talking out of one's ass instead of speaking about something they actually know about.

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can correctly state that these games are making more money for the house and maybe making more money for the dealer at $40 tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's very rare to correctly state anything when talking out of one's ass instead of speaking about something they actually know about.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not talking out of my ass. I'm talking with the information given to me by the original poster. Now, if you would get off your [censored] pedastool and come down to earth, you can plainly see that you are being ripped off.

[IgorSmiles]

I'm not being ripped off because I dont play these. We agree, the rake is a huge ripoff. But you are missing the point.

The house doesnt even want to spread these because they are more trouble than they are worth and yes, they make them less money than if they were to open a 10/20 table in its place. They spread these games for the tourists because the demand is there.

The dealers generally dont get tipped $40. If they were, the floor wouldnt have to prod the winner to cough it over.

[UMTerp]

[ QUOTE ]
Then she was very aggressive and pressured me to tip the dealer, and said the average tip for such a game is $40. I was obviously going to tip the dealer but is $40 a little much for such a game?

[/ QUOTE ]

I took 3rd/165 in the Taj Saturday morning ($100+$20) tourney 3 or 4 weeks ago. Got 10% ($1650) for my finish. I've always read that it's pretty standard to tip 2-4% after tournament cashes. I don't play much in casinos, but I've won/placed in my share of tournaments, and generally give 3 to 5 percent. So I get my money, give the floorman $50 (a hair over 3%), and he looks at me and is like "Ummm, people usually give more than this". WTF?? I'd never heard an employee say anything like that before. I ended up giving $20 more so I didn't look like an [censored], but isn't that out of line for the floorman? Is this standard MO at the Taj?

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then she was very aggressive and pressured me to tip the dealer, and said the average tip for such a game is $40. I was obviously going to tip the dealer but is $40 a little much for such a game?

[/ QUOTE ]

I took 3rd/165 in the Taj Saturday morning ($100+$20) tourney 3 or 4 weeks ago. Got 10% ($1650) for my finish. I've always read that it's pretty standard to tip 2-4% after tournament cashes. I don't play much in casinos, but I've won/placed in my share of tournaments, and generally give 3 to 5 percent. So I get my money, give the floorman $50 (a hair over 3%), and he looks at me and is like "Ummm, people usually give more than this". WTF?? I'd never heard an employee say anything like that before. I ended up giving $20 more so I didn't look like an [censored], but isn't that out of line for the floorman? Is this standard MO at the Taj?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have taken my $50 back. I really don't have to give anything to anyone. They should be glad I'm giving them something for doing their JOBS.

[nycplayer]

Damn, I took first in a 3 table $30+10 rebuy tournament (paid top 3), won $990 ($920 after entry and add-on) and I tipped $90 for the dealers, who pool tips.
Based on comments here it will be less next time. I thought 10% was normal, but I guess it is more like 5%.

[WallStTo5thSt]

Just for the record:

This was my first (and last) sng at the Taj. I was willing to give up the 30% rake because I had been knocked out of the 100 + 20 Sat morning tournament and was waiting for friends to finish. In addition to the rake, the blinds move up far too quickly to make this game anything other than a crap shoot. I strongly recommend against playing in this game.

[Arm187r]

Why do people even care what or how much other people tip??
And Sykes you sound like a real douchebag, and I don't even disagree with all of your comments, you just come off rude and obnoxious.

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do people even care what or how much other people tip??
And Sykes you sound like a real douchebag, and I don't even disagree with all of your comments, you just come off rude and obnoxious.

[/ QUOTE ]

If being blunt and honest is being a douchebag, then I guess I am. However, I'm a very nice guy who's easy-going but I do not like being [censored] over and get pissed off when I feel I'm being [censored] over.

[wwm]

Pedastool..........
Is that what you get when you poop on your foot?

[juanez]

You're an idiot. Casino's make more of a sng with 30% rake than they do with cash games.

I may be an idiot in your opinion, but you obviously have no clue on this one. Sorry - you're wrong.

[juanez]

It's very rare to correctly state anything when talking out of one's ass instead of speaking about something they actually know about.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[juanez]

If being blunt and honest is being a douchebag, then I guess I am.

My guess is that is that your guess is correct, based on the douchieness of your posts in this thread.

I do not like being [censored] over and get pissed off when I feel I'm being [censored] over.

WTF? You weren't the OP, were you? How did you get screwed over here?

If you think the juice for a particular tourney is too high, don't buy in. If you buy in anyway, don't rant about being "screwed over" - you VOLUNTARILY bought in. Nobody forces people to play tourneys. LMAO.

Your ranting about how you are a cheap asss when it comes to tipping dealers is so...well, predictable (do a search amigo). And you got negative responses....was that a surprise to you?

Please keep posting. You make me laugh and I like laughing. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
If being blunt and honest is being a douchebag, then I guess I am.

My guess is that is that your guess is correct, based on the douchieness of your posts in this thread.

I do not like being [censored] over and get pissed off when I feel I'm being [censored] over.

WTF? You weren't the OP, were you? How did you get screwed over here?

If you think the juice for a particular tourney is too high, don't buy in. If you buy in anyway, don't rant about being "screwed over" - you VOLUNTARILY bought in. Nobody forces people to play tourneys. LMAO.

Your ranting about how you are a cheap asss when it comes to tipping dealers is so...well, predictable (do a search amigo). And you got negative responses....was that a surprise to you?

Please keep posting. You make me laugh and I like laughing. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice to know I'm talking to a person who doesn't know the basic quote function and has to triple post to make himself self-important.

Notice that I said that this is not a individual incident. Also, poker players have no choice on the games they want.

As a closing statement, my beef is not with tipping, it's with the house. If the house sng was only 10% rake, I would have no problem tipping $30-40 for the dealer.

Also, thanks for bringing this back from the dead. You are a troll.

[Rams_Law]

[ QUOTE ]
The last time I won a 500.00 winner take all, I gave up 40 bucks for it. That rake is extremely high as well. But I can't see penalizing the dealer because the house is greedy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Last time I checked, the dealer IS the house. The dealer is not your friend because he is sitting at the table any more than your opponents are. You're foolish to think otherwise, though that view is actively encouragesd to separate you from more of your money.

Rake = Net winnings ($450) - all expenses (buy-in + tip). Simple as that.

[IgorSmiles]

The rake is too high. But the house doesnt even like spreading these at the current rake. They will kill the game before lowering the rake unless they can justify some side issue that makes them money (player demand, bringing new players into the casino, etc).

Also, keep in mind, the game may take an hour but they have to lock up the table for longer than that. A cash game keeps going without down time.

Sngs make sense online, live they are good for satillites only. They arent practical for anyone, dealer, house or player.

[Toonces]

[ QUOTE ]
Sngs make sense online, live they are good for satillites only. They arent practical for anyone, dealer, house or player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. By the time you are done tipping, there just isn't enough equity left.

[Photoc]

You sir as a moron.

[ QUOTE ]
Last time I checked, the dealer IS the house.

[/ QUOTE ]

Better get your facts straight. The dealer WORKS for the house, they are not the house taking the rake and making money off the players by taking rake. IF you have such a problem with a casino making money, then you must have it that grocery stores make money, that your place of employment makes money and that we have a decent economy where people are out to make money. That dealer is probably making 5 or 6 bucks/hr of dealing, so a tip from me is definately in order for doing a good job.

Go with sykes and play on the internet. This thread was not intended to hear the criticism of a few trolls as to why others tip. I tipped because I wanted to, not because you didn't want me to. Where do you get off telling me what I can and can't do?

IF you dont want to tip, DONT [censored] DO IT! Just dont come on here and tell me why I shouldn't. The original poster asked how much, not if, why, who, how, ect...

So drop it and go cry to the other non tippers as I'm sure there are 100 more threads that you can troll dealing with the same issue.

edited for spelling

[dicelumpY2005]

Photo, well said...there is a place for a-holes like this: the internet. I am so tired of people thinking that when the house gets paid, the dealers get paid. This is the farthest thing from the truth. Trust me: dealers hate the house just as much as you do at times. The only ones getting "ripped off" or "f-ed over" in these situations are the ones who choose to play in these extremely high raked SnG's. I'm sorry, but anyone who playes live poker AND complains about having to tip, or openly talks about how they don't tip, is a complete jackass.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I'd like to triple the sentiment here, anyone who openly talks about their non-tippage is a complete jerk and should be forcibly banned to the internet for life. Dealers work for their money so if you are too much of a cheap jerkoff a-hole to tip then please do the universe a favor and electricute yourself with a toaster or at least stay out of live cardrooms.

al

[Sykes]

Photoc, al_Capone, and dice: You guys are really immature. I never once said anything about not tipping. All I was talking about was the amount of $$ you should tip.

I have no problem with tipping but what gets me po'ed is the people that complain about the amount of tips you get.

[juanez]

First you write:
Dealers do nothing besides doing their JOBS.
People should not get tips for doing their JOBS.
In closing, [censored] tipping.

Then you write:
I never once said anything about not tipping.
and
I have no problem with tipping....

You sir, are full of shiit.

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
First you write:
Dealers do nothing besides doing their JOBS.
People should not get tips for doing their JOBS.
In closing, [censored] tipping.

Then you write:
I never once said anything about not tipping.
and
I have no problem with tipping....

You sir, are full of shiit.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sir, are a troll. Let the topic die.

[juanez]

You sir, are a troll. Let the topic die.

LMAO - stop spewing shiit and I'll stop pointing out your idiocy. It’s way too easy.

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
You sir, are a troll. Let the topic die.

LMAO - stop spewing shiit and I'll stop pointing out your idiocy. It’s way too easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Listen, I only made that post because every post I saw on 2+2 here dealt with tipping. I don't believe you have to tip every person for every job they do.

Also, I'm a very good tipper. I play $1/$2 at the local casino (highest limit /images/graemlins/frown.gif) and I tip $1-2 on every pot I win.
And I've tipped 30% at dinners at least 90% of the time.

People should not complain about extra money. Beggars cannot be choosers.

So take your high and mighty [censored] out of this topic. I tip more than you most likely so I can state my opinion whenever I feel like it.

[sameoldsht]

Let me get this straight.

You say "[censored] tipping" but then claim that you are a "very good tipper"?

I also think that, one way or the other, you are full of shiit.

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me get this straight.

You say "[censored] tipping" but then claim that you are a "very good tipper"?

I also think that, one way or the other, you are full of shiit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that everyone deserves a tip.