$22 Why getting fancy in the lower limits is a bad idea

[Freudian]

Here is a stop-n-go that where I had a good flop (as in he missing it). But I was stupid enough to do it against a somewhat loose big stack. Thus the chance of it working is so reduced that it is a bad bad play. He minraised everything so that isn't a big factor here.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t850)
UTG (t3105)
MP (t1160)
Button (t1075)
SB (t1810)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t300</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls t150.

Flop: (t675) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t550 (All-In)</font>, UTG calls t550.

Turn: (t1775) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t1775) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t1775

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has 4d 3c (high card, king).
UTG has As 9h (flush, king high).
Outcome: UTG wins t1775. </font>

[RicktheRuler]

Nice hand.

Seriously though, your are right. At this level anything but straightforward play seems to be suboptimal the majority of the time. Maybe everyone has the same FPS you do and that is why they look so terrible. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[TheTimeIsUp]

When it doesn't work, it is a bad idea.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice hand.

Seriously though, your are right. At this level anything but straightforward play seems to be suboptimal the majority of the time. Maybe everyone has the same FPS you do and that is why they look so terrible. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I rarely do it though. But with tiny stack and one of the big stacks minraising every hand it was hard to find any spots to do anything. Plus frustration with not getting any even half-decent starting hands.

This is about as fancy as I have gotten in ages.

[curtains]

I would never even dream of doing this or anything even remotely similar to it in a situation like this.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]

I would never even dream of doing this or anything even remotely similar to it in a situation like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because he minraised? He did that the last six hands (when not in a blind).

[adanthar]

No, because you have 43o and big stacks call stuff.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
No, because you have 43o and big stacks call stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know. That why I said it was a bad play in the original post.

Not that I think cards are that important here. The second factor is.

[adanthar]

This would be a far less bad play (still bad, but far less bad) if you had, say, K9, so that when he calls you with any two anyway at least you have a chance to be beating Q7.

[jon462]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No, because you have 43o and big stacks call stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not that I think cards are that important here. The second factor is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I probably if Im the largestack there (well, assuming I would be raising utg with A9o, which i wouldnt)

[KramerTM]

Doesn't the EV of a stop-and-go shoot up when its a semi-bluff? Even if it's a runner-runner one... it helps.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't the EV of a stop-and-go shoot up when its a semi-bluff? Even if it's a runner-runner one... it helps.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't plan what the flop will be.

[Blarg]

This looks like one of those hands called specifically in order to do a stop 'n' go on any flop without a king or an ace in it.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
This looks like one of those hands called specifically in order to do a stop 'n' go on any flop without a king or an ace in it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was mostly a frustration play. Being card dead and never getting to open a pot. And it was against the player where I had the least chance to pull it off.

edit: I might have check on a flop with A or K though.

[Matt R.]

I like the play against any type of decent big stack -- not saying I'm a decent big stack (ha) but I know I wouldn't call this with ace high. But then again, I wouldn't be minraising A9 either. Too bad he was a donk. Patience is definitely the key at the lower limits. Calling stations everywhere -- and they'll still call off all their chips with a mediocre hand -- so you just have to wait them out and hope for cards at the right time.

[KramerTM]

[ QUOTE ]

Doesn't the EV of a stop-and-go shoot up when its a semi-bluff? Even if it's a runner-runner one... it helps.

[ QUOTE ]

You can't plan what the flop will be.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course not. But you can choose cards to perform stop-n-go's with that will flop some sort of draw much more often than 34o. You see my point?

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Doesn't the EV of a stop-and-go shoot up when its a semi-bluff? Even if it's a runner-runner one... it helps.

[ QUOTE ]

You can't plan what the flop will be.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course not. But you can choose cards to perform stop-n-go's with that will flop some sort of draw much more often than 34o. You see my point?

[/ QUOTE ]

If I had much time to wait, I wouldn't be doing Sit'N'Go at all. This is the last hand before I am BB where I am first to act. Something that is needed for a Stop'n'Go.

And next time I am BB the chances of a Stop'N'Go are even smaller than now.

So I didn't have a lot of options here considering how small the chance was of me opening a pot until I am in the blinds again. I chose a poor option, but there is no guarantee that any better spot would have opened up.

[KramerTM]

Dually noted.