So if Jeter is "Mr. Clutch"?

[DangerGoodson]

Why did it take him so long to hit his 1st grand slam?

[Voltron87]

You're an idiot.

Do you know what Jeter's BA is with the bases loaded? I'll give you a hint, it's well over .300.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
You're an idiot.

Do you know what Jeter's BA is with the bases loaded? I'll give you a hint, it's well over .300.

[/ QUOTE ]

His career AVG is well over .300 as well though.

[Voltron87]

his avg with the bases loaded is higher than his career average, but many players hit better with the bases loaded for a variety of reasons, it is not a jeter phenomenon.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
his avg with the bases loaded is higher than his career average, but many players hit better with the bases loaded for a variety of reasons, it is not a jeter phenomenon.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're correct, it's a varience phenomenon. But don't tell the broadcasters or managers that, it has to be kept secret.

[Voltron87]

no, its not a variance phenomenon.

look at all the career .300 hitters (im trying to group "very good" hitters), and look at their BA with the bases loaded. i would confidently bet that their ba with the bases loaded is better than their career ba. it isn't because of variance.

[Josh W]

[ QUOTE ]
no, its not a variance phenomenon.

look at all the career .300 hitters (im trying to group "very good" hitters), and look at their BA with the bases loaded. i would confidently bet that their ba with the bases loaded is better than their career ba. it isn't because of variance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't looked at numbers, but would certainly expect this to be the case. One reason for this is the pitcher will not want to walk the batter (even moreso than usual), so the hitter can expect mostly fastballs.

Josh

[sublime]

also the infield is not usually playing in the best position to prevent a hit, but to prevent a run from scoring.

[pudley4]

plus approx 2/3 of the time, he's in a <2 out situation, so any reasonable flyball turns into a sac fly.

[Jack of Arcades]

And if the pitcher's loaded the bases in the first place, he probably doesn't have great stuff.

[sublime]

unless he is Yankee. then he was clearly being squeezed by the home plate ump.

[DangerGoodson]

[ QUOTE ]
You're an idiot.

Do you know what Jeter's BA is with the bases loaded? I'll give you a hint, it's well over .300.

[/ QUOTE ]



eh, thats all swell, but the epitome of clutch is when the bases are loaded and you bomb one over the fence.


If we wanna talk averages with Jeter we might as well discuss his blow job average. I'll give you a hint he probably gives out more than he takes. (especially to TV commentators.)

[brassnuts]

I hate the Yankees but like Jeter. As a matter of fact, he's probably the only players I do like on that team.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
eh, thats all swell, but the epitome of clutch is when the bases are loaded and you bomb one over the fence.

[/ QUOTE ] stfu with your stupid use of the word clutch. It has no basis in any conversation regarding stats.

[DangerGoodson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
eh, thats all swell, but the epitome of clutch is when the bases are loaded and you bomb one over the fence.

[/ QUOTE ] stfu with your stupid use of the word clutch. It has no basis in any conversation regarding stats.

[/ QUOTE ]


Then on what basis is Jeter considered clutch? Tell me I seriously want to know....

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
eh, thats all swell, but the epitome of clutch is when the bases are loaded and you bomb one over the fence.

[/ QUOTE ] stfu with your stupid use of the word clutch. It has no basis in any conversation regarding stats.

[/ QUOTE ]


Then on what basis is Jeter considered clutch? Tell me I seriously want to know....

[/ QUOTE ]

His point is that "clutch" is undefinable in statistics. By my account, there are "clutch plays," but not "clutch players."

Look at it this way: if you played better when you were playing clutchly, then you have the ability to play that way all the time and therefore are slacking a majority of the time.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
Then on what basis is Jeter considered clutch? Tell me I seriously want to know....

[/ QUOTE ]

Though 'clutch players' exist, it is impossible, given the sample size, for any one player to be proven as such in his career.

The fact that people claim Jeter is 'clutch' is simple because they dont understand the mathematics behind the game.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then on what basis is Jeter considered clutch? Tell me I seriously want to know....

[/ QUOTE ]

Though 'clutch players' exist, it is impossible, given the sample size, for any one player to be proven as such in his career.

The fact that people claim Jeter is 'clutch' is simple because they dont understand the mathematics behind the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's also no solid definition of what is and is not clutch.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then on what basis is Jeter considered clutch? Tell me I seriously want to know....

[/ QUOTE ]

Though 'clutch players' exist, it is impossible, given the sample size, for any one player to be proven as such in his career.

The fact that people claim Jeter is 'clutch' is simple because they dont understand the mathematics behind the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's also no solid definition of what is and is not clutch.

[/ QUOTE ]

You would have to:

- Determine the league's true stats for all situations
- Determine the league's true stats for all situations defined as "pressure" situations
- Determine a players true stats for all situations
- Determine a players true stats for all "pressure" situations

Then, you could define a "clutch" player, as, say, the top 2-5% of players whose performance is least hindered/most helped by being in a pressure situation, VS THEIR OWN TRUE STATS, NOT the leagues.

But, of course, this has the hole:

I would still rather have fat albert up, than some no name who just happens to handle pressure well, because the deviation from their all situations stats isnt significant enough to overcome the difference in their all situations stats.

[Jack of Arcades]

Joe Buck: Now, obviously, you're talking about one of the best (Jeter) leaders in the game today, somebody who is just a winner, and somebody who - when he came up in his rookie year in '96 - just had that look about him like he'd been here before. Jeter has been one of the most consistent players in the game over the past nine years.

Tim McCarver: At the risk of going ga-ga too much, I mean, this guy is thoroughly hip. He is about as hip, to use that young expression, as there is any player in the game. He's tough, he's rugged, he is a winner, he's a guy who makes the big plays, and he has four World Series titles to his credit.

JB: Clearly the two of us are thoroughly in love with Derek Jeter.

TM: Ah, c'mon! I knew, see, when I say 'at the risk of going ga-ga' I knew that you would point out that I was going ga-ga.

JB: Well I was over there too, I was in Ga-Ga Land, too. (With a broadcaster tone dripping with sarcasm.) He's a winner, he's a born leader, this is a live Yankeeography...

TM: (Laughs uncomfortably)

JB: ...24 home runs, this handsome, debonair, swashbuckling...

TM: Quit it!

JB: ...last guy to wear number 2 for the Yankees hit back in 1999. HE is Derek Jeter and HE is out. One away here in the third inning.

TM: Cut it out. (More forced laughter.)

JB: Somehow Glendon Rusch got him to ground out. And here's Womack. Ga-ga land is shut down for Tony Womack. The rides are closed.

[sublime]

at least they are honest about it, two retards.

[Jack of Arcades]

Buck was being sarcastic.

[sublime]

hes a clown and they both hand out blow jobs to him whenever he is up at plate or makes a non routine play in the field. the guy is a good player who happened to be on great teams. like somebody pointed out before, bernie was probably more valuable to them during the WS stretch.

[contentless]

[ QUOTE ]
His point is that "clutch" is undefinable in statistics.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is, of course, false. If someone can identify 'clutch', then obviously it's identifiable, just that the science of baseball statistics haven't advanced far enough to gauge this factor yet.

I personally have a theory about Jeter's clutchness that's been echoed by a few people around here. I can give you a sneak preview: It begins with 'great spin' and ends with 'moves'.

Edit: By the way, over his career...

Total (5775 AB): .314/.385/.462
None On (3399 AB): .313/.380/.477
Runners On (2376 AB): .315/.393/.439
In Scoring Position (1345 AB): .300/.395/.422
Bases Loaded (136 AB): .338/.381/.426

So incredibly 'meh'. At least he's better at working a walk with runners in scoring position... ???

In comparison, I pulled up Manny's numbers (who is tied with the Cap'n at this point with a .314 career BA):

Total (5807 AB): .314/.409/.595
None On (2986 AB): .297/.382/.572
Runners On (2821 AB): .331/.434/.620
In Scoring Position (1670 AB): .331/.452/.611
Bases Loaded (173 AB): .347/.386/.763

I've never done this, but nh.

[Jack of Arcades]

With RISP, singles hitters like Jeter tend to play above expectations while power hitters like, say, Adam Dunn, tend to perform below expecations. What usually ahppens is, for the slugger, BA and SLG goes down while OBP goes up (IE, it seems obvious they're being pitched around).

Perhaps guys like Jeter (or Boggs, or Gwynn, they were the best at this) are getting better pitches to hit.

By the way, if you give an acceptable definition of clutch, it definitely can be measured. Look for articles on clutch hitting by Andy Dolphin and Tango Tiger.