PDA

View Full Version : Thanks to 2+2


Botman
01-19-2003, 02:31 PM
I want to thank 2+2, particularly David, Mason and Jim Brier, and Tommy Angelo and Izmet, and many others for their wonderful insights, which have helped me improve my Bot so much, especially recently.

For example, betting or calling instead of folding:

1. On the river: Early versions of the Bot, which used some simulations and also some knowledge gleaned from Wilson and from my own play, simply folded way too much on the river, especially Heads Up. I changed the code to rarely fold Heads Up, unless very very very sure that it is beaten. This has helped the program immensely, picking up pots for one big bet which it would have folded before. This adds up.

2. Check Raising: I rewrote both regular code and tables to check raise way more, after reading some of David's writings. Thanks David! It sometimes check raises to protect its hand, sometimes with a monster, and I do not even know which is which (there is randomness); maybe this is AI, but mostly it is very strong, confusing the opponent,
picking up pots, and building pots when strong too.

3. Special situations: There are many situations where a bet can pickup a pot and has wonderful odds because the opponents have said 'I am weak'. There is a 'special situation' section of code now, and it is amazing to me how the Bot picks up pots by just betting out with ANY cards.

4. Seeing more turns (and pot odds) or 'the size of the pot': I read some of the many problems posted here by David and Mason (isn't Mason always saying 'pot size matters') and others over the past year, and I saw a pattern of seeing many more turns with odds that don't look obviously good, but which are. My Bot sees many more turns now, and instead of folding for one small bet, when it knows it has proper odds, it sees (or even bets) non-obvious situations and tries to win very large pots.

Those were all -- "since I am seeing so few flops, lets be more aggressive when staying in."

Now for a difference:

5. Folding when beaten: There are a number of situations, especially online, given the texture of the game, where you must fold. Many people have written about this over the months on the 'Internet' Forum here, and I added code for this; like getting check raised on the turn with a vulnerable hand or a difficult board and no outs. Wilson will play on. Many humans will play on and sigh when they lose. The Bot just gives up (a generally small pot) when the opponent is screaming 'I am strong'. (special situation code). I just reread this and it sounds like Poker Kindergarten, but I don't think it is.

While 1-4 talk about 'betting or calling instead of folding' and 5 is about folding, there is #6:

6. Jim's book: Look, I have every 2+2 book, goes without saying, right? But Jim's book helped in a different way. I went through the book looking for 'what does the bot do'.
I went through every problem. I found that it helped a lot. I also found, by trial and error, that sometimes it caused me to program to be too passive. I fixed those. Wow, I think the book is excellent, especially for my purposes.
Way to go Jim.

Anyway, I think that looking into these in one's own game would be very useful. And I want to add some things which a Bot can do which is very hard for a human -->

1. It never gets impatient: I get impatient -- my AA gets cracked by 42o, I see more flops. I just do. Many people do too. My bot doesn't.

2. It never tilts: My AA gets cracked 3 times, I start to play badly, I just do. I have seen excellent players lose control when people draw out on them. My Bot never tilts.

Happy Poker,

Botman /forums/images/icons/club.gif

Ed Miller
01-19-2003, 04:36 PM
I think this project is really cool... and I hope you continue to keep us updated as you improve your bot. My roommate's been trying to get me to write a poker bot every since I picked up the game... but I don't see it happening any time soon.. hehe. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

mdlm
01-20-2003, 01:03 AM
I think this project is really cool...

I think this project is really sucky...Botman takes 2+2's knowledge and uses it to take our money and then shares no concrete advice about how to improve. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

And to top it off he gloats. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

droidboy
01-20-2003, 10:19 PM
You seem very much in need of attention.

cpk
01-21-2003, 04:57 AM
interesting.

the thing about 'folding when clearly beaten' is a very big one. when i first learned how to do it, my bankroll ballooned. against passive players at low limits, a turn checkraise means any top pair you have is beaten...sometimes to the point of drawing dead.

if the pot is below about 7 BB, folding saves 2 big bets every time...and 1 even if the pot is bigger. even if you can only figure out how to do this once per hour, that's a net gain of +2 BB to your hourly rate. that's freaking huge.

i've taken a shot at the middle limits, now, and i'm having a little more trouble with this. there's a very real reason wilson continues to play 'vulnerable' hands when check-raised--players are semibluffing. a lot. and they often repeat the bluff on the river. so now rather than saving 2 BB, you're losing whole pots. that's a disaster.

the trick is learning how to walk the rice paper.