avg's. since the crackdown

[Ray Zee]

so how are the big hitters doing since they cant get their steroids. i heard awhile back its down for them, but is this true. if it isnt then maybe we shouldnt care if they use them or not. if it is then maybe records need adjusting.

[tbach24]

A lot of guys I think who did steroids are now injured. Also, a LOT are RPs who you wouldn't think, so I'm not sure about them.

I haven't noticed a real declination among players who I didn't expect to in skills, besides Giambi. Perhaps you could look at a guy like Chavez, but has he gotten any smaller? It seems to me that the jobs they've done to crack down shows that either they did a lackluster job and people are still doing it, or there weren't as many as we believed.

Edit- I'm looking through again and found Travis Hafner (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6980),

I'll look for some more examples. Casey Blake (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6310) Victor Martinez (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6853)

Blake, Martinez and Hafner all Indians and all experienced a large fall in all stats, coincidence?

Rafael Palmeiro, part of the steriods controversy this winter (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/3897)

[RacersEdge]

ESPN had a tracking stat on HR/game in MLB comparing 2003 to 2004. I can't find it now.

[istewart]

Tom Verducci had a big article in SI on the increase in "small ball and pitching" and the decrease in home runs this year. Good read.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I think its to early to start jumping to conclusions about averages and whatnot. Clearly the sample size is to small. Even one full season is probably to small.

[ThaSaltCracka]

it is entirely possible that all three are just sucking right now as well. Perhaps the hitting coach isn't working with them well or something.

[youngndumb]

I think Brett Boones appearance and performance this season is confirming what Canseco said in his book.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
so how are the big hitters doing since they cant get their steroids. i heard awhile back its down for them, but is this true. if it isnt then maybe we shouldnt care if they use them or not. if it is then maybe records need adjusting.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are sorely mistaken if you think that any of the "big hitters" who were doing steroids are still not on steroids.

THG is undetectable to piss tests.

[CD56]

Palmeiro's decline this year probably has more to do with his age than any steroids connection. I actually think that he didn't juice, but im probably in the minority there.

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]
Palmeiro's decline this year probably has more to do with his age than any steroids connection. I actually think that he didn't juice, but im probably in the minority there.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's tough to think he wouldn't use performance enhancing drugs when he's a spokesman for Viagra.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Palmeiro's decline this year probably has more to do with his age than any steroids connection. I actually think that he didn't juice, but im probably in the minority there.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's tough to think he wouldn't use performance enhancing drugs when he's a spokesman for Viagra.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/JESUSFUCKINGCHRIST99/Quagmire.gif

Giggity giggity giggity

[SpearsBritney]

Trust me, they still get their juice. The owners would make sure of it. Just another political smokescreen to make us think all is well.

peace

conspiracy man

[DougOzzzz]

[ QUOTE ]
Tom Verducci had a big article in SI on the increase in "small ball and pitching" and the decrease in home runs this year. Good read.

[/ QUOTE ]

Home runs are down a bit. But it's not a "huge" change like most people are saying. There have been bigger dips in the past 10 years.

[KDawgCometh]

the homerun is way down in college ball too. THere has been in the past five years a shift towards a more pitching and small ball style of play in both the majors and college. THe steriod controversy might've just sped up the change at the major league level

[Drac]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of guys I think who did steroids are now injured. Also, a LOT are RPs who you wouldn't think, so I'm not sure about them.

I haven't noticed a real declination among players who I didn't expect to in skills, besides Giambi. Perhaps you could look at a guy like Chavez, but has he gotten any smaller? It seems to me that the jobs they've done to crack down shows that either they did a lackluster job and people are still doing it, or there weren't as many as we believed.

Edit- I'm looking through again and found Travis Hafner (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6980),

I'll look for some more examples. Casey Blake (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6310) Victor Martinez (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6853)

Blake, Martinez and Hafner all Indians and all experienced a large fall in all stats, coincidence?

Rafael Palmeiro, part of the steriods controversy this winter (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/3897)

[/ QUOTE ]

So you think it's solid evidence to pick 2 guys with one year of experience, one guy with 2 years of experience, and a 40 year old to illustrate a drop in performance? Hafner, Blake, and Martinez all have way too small a base line to make any kind of judgements at this point. Palmeiro is a fossil who's power numbers dropped off pretty hard last year.

I think Brett Boone is a better candidate but he's had some pretty big swings in the past. He's always seemed more of a "little" guy with big guy arms. Based on comments Roger Clemens made about Palmeiro early in their MLB careers I think Raffy was a legitimate candidate to be on the juice. In his first full 7 seasons he averaged just under 20 dingers a year then went on to average over 41 a year for the next 9 seasons. That kind of increase seems a little fishy.

I don't follow the NL much but a guy that screamed roids to me from the first time I saw him was Pujols. I've never heard his name in a steroid discussion before but good lord are his arms huge! On TV he just looks like he has too much muscle for his frame.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't follow the NL much but a guy that screamed roids to me from the first time I saw him was Pujols. I've never heard his name in a steroid discussion before but good lord are his arms huge! On TV he just looks like he has too much muscle for his frame.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to La Russa, Pujols is without question the hardest working player he has ever had. I haven't really noticed anything about his physique over the last few years. He's only 25 and he first came into the league at 21 so you'd expect him to fill out a bit. Pujols would actually be one of the last superstars I would think took steroids.

[pryor15]

haven't seen how he looks, but i think boone was due for a big drop in production anyway. he was trending downward, if i remember correctly.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
haven't seen how he looks, but i think boone was due for a big drop in production anyway. he was trending downward, if i remember correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

And he's an oldish 2B that has accrued a lot of playing time. 2Bs and Cs are prone to fall off a cliff around 33. See: Roberto Alomar.