Up and coming NBA players

[Clarkmeister]

My fantasy basketball season is starting up again (it's a year-round 16-team dynasty league complete with salary cap and developmental roster spots). I figure I'll draw on the collective forum wisdom.

Two questions:

1. What are some sleeper players who really figure to break out next year? These could be regular starters who really are coming around and could be top notch guys, young bench players who figure to get more PT, etc. I'm looking for guys 27 years old or younger. Known players who still have upside count, Joe Johnson or Larry Hughes for example.

2. Who are some quality guys in the draft that you think will be solid NBA players. I want guys who will likely contribute somewhat in their first year. Think 20 mpg or more.

If it matters, we 9 categories:

FT% FG% 3pt%
rebounds assists blocks steals points turnovers.

To help the discussion, here are some guys I'm already looking at (many of whom I couldn't acquire for all the tea in China). Comments on them are appreciated.

In no order

Al Jefferson
Josh Smith
Chris Bosh
Primoz Brezec
Andre Iguodala
Chris Kaman
Jameer Nelson



For the record, here is my roster (we start 12):
C Dampier
C Lorenzen Wright
C Brian Grant
C Vlade
C Francisco Elson

F Battier
F Brand
F Chandler
F Garnett
F Prince
F Tim Thomas
F Austin Croshere

G Arenas
G Rick Brunson
G Cassell
G Ben Gordon
G Hinrich
G Devin Brown

Developmental squad:
C Mario Kasun
G Carlos Delfino
G Quinton Ross

[ThaSaltCracka]

Sebastian Telfair will most likely get a lot of playing time next year, as well as Joel Pryzbilla.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
as well as Joel Pryzbilla.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about Theo? Also, is there a chance they play Zach at the 5 ala Amare?

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
as well as Joel Pryzbilla.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about Theo? Also, is there a chance they play Zach at the 5 ala Amare?

[/ QUOTE ]I think Joel proved himself down the stretch to be better than Theo last year. As for Zach, his shoulder is [censored] up ala Jamal Mashburn. I would expect to see him playing PF and not center. Although, I think there is a good chance that Portland makes a few trades and dumps some of their older players. Remember, Damon will be gone, so will Van Exel and Shareef.

[tbach24]

All the Celtics young guns. I hope that Ainge cleans us out of all the old men and lets the young guys play more.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
All the Celtics young guns. I hope that Ainge cleans us out of all the old men and lets the young guys play more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who other than Allen and AlJef?

Do you think Allen can really be an NBA starter? What about his shooting?

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All the Celtics young guns. I hope that Ainge cleans us out of all the old men and lets the young guys play more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who other than Allen and AlJef?

Do you think Allen can really be an NBA starter? What about his shooting?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think given some PT, Perkins could develop into a great center. He is very large, very intense, and probably just needs to work on conditioning.

Delonte is a natural player who does everything well.

TA is VERY athletic, crashes the boards, plays great D, and will probably spend a lot of time working on shooting this offseason.

All AlJef needs to do to become an elite PF is work on conditioning (playing 40 min/game is what I'd like) and work on his skills in double teams. Again, this is achievable.

IMO, Banks is already there and just needs to be given the reigns to the team. His head may be a little screwy as it was clear that the C's did better when GP was on the court then Banks (although GP is an elite PG and has TONS of experience).

So basically I think that out of the bunch only AlJef will contribute this year, but I'd look at TA and Perk as long term guys. Banks and Delonte are both great in their own ways, but I prefer Banks although Delonte is probably a better leader at this point.

For fantasy contribution I don't think TA will be that good this year, but maybe towards the end of the season we will notice him as a more controlled, better shooter.

Edit- to be more concise here's how long until they're solid contributers to the roster:
AJ: Next year (20-30 MPG)
Delonte: Depends on the status of GP but I think he could get 10-15 this year and when we finally get rid of Pierce, be a good 6th or 7th man off the bench
Banks: This year depends on GP, but I could see him being the starting PG and being very, very good. I have very high hopes for him and just think he needs to mature a tiny bit more.
Perkins: Will be a GREAT center as soon as he's in top shape/the Celtics management realizes how good he is.
Allen: Will either be a starter or quick off the bench this year, but will put up solid minutes either way. He's only a jump shot away from being an elite 2 guard.

[Josh W]

Nick Collison really started to impress late last season.

You know that I loathe Phil, but I think Lamar Odom will really flourish under Jax.

I love Igoudala...what about Dalembert?

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
think given some PT, Perkins could develop into a great center. He is very large, very intense, and probably just needs to work on conditioning

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool. That's the kind of stuff that really helps. I won't have a roster spot for him as he's too much of a project and our developmental spots are only for first or second year players, but he's a guy I can keep my eye on for future deals.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Nick Collison really started to impress late last season.

You know that I loathe Phil, but I think Lamar Odom will really flourish under Jax.

I love Igoudala...what about Dalembert?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dalembert is nice. I doubt I could acquire him at a reasonable price though.

Collison though, I could get him. I just pulled in his stats - he was top 100 in our league over the last month. That's very very nice for a 24 year old who's basicically a rookie. Nice call Josh.

Odom has a HUGE salary in our league.

[Clarkmeister]

For the interested (I'm guessing no one) here are the top 50 players from last year under our fantasy system, on a per game played value.

1-10
Garnett,Kevin
Artest,Ron
Nowitzki,Dirk
Marion,Shawn
Stoudemire,Amare
Miller,Brad
Kirilenko,Andrei
James,Lebron
Duncan,Tim
Brand,Elton

11-20
Johnson,Joe
Nash,Steve
Carter,Vince
Camby,Marcus
Ming,Yao
Billups,Chauncey
Stojakovic,Peja
Pierce,Paul
Lewis,Rashard
Hill,Grant

21-30
Marshall,Donyell
Simmons,Bobby
Abdur-rahim,Shareef
Mobley,Cuttino
Terry,Jason
Wade,Dwyane
Marbury,Stephon
Gasol,Pau
Ilgauskas,Zydrunas
Thomas,Kurt

31-40
Webber,Chris
Gooden,Drew
Jones,Damon
Arenas,Gilbert
Bosh,Chris
Miller,Mike
Ginobili,Manu
Wallace,Ben
Korver,Kyle
Hughes,Larry

41-50
Bibby,Mike
Allen,Ray
O'neal,Jermaine
Haslem,Udonis
Howard,Dwight
Brown,P.j.
Kidd,Jason
Lafrentz,Raef
Knight,Brevin
Boozer,Carlos

[ThaSaltCracka]

I did not think Rashard was ranked that high. Interesting. Plus Artest, wow. I still think the Pacers beat the Pistons this year with Ron.

[tbach24]

Wow, was Marshall really that good? I remember him being very good 2 years back, but it looks like he got a lot worse.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
I did not think Rashard was ranked that high.

[/ QUOTE ]

He gives you a little of everything, which is important. 1.0 stl, 1.0 blk, low turnovers at 1.7 and all while hitting over 40% from 3pt while taking a lot of them (over 6 attempts/game).

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, was Marshall really that good? I remember him being very good 2 years back, but it looks like he got a lot worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was almost top 10 last year. He's another who does a lot of everything. Similar line to Lewis, but a higher 3pt% and an astounding 0.6 TO/game. Fewer points though.

[Phoenix1010]

Awesome.

Some known players who are about to break out:
Dwight Howard
Chris Bosh
Ben Gordon
Tyson Chandler

Sleepers:
Devin Harris, 22- Great young PG, and now that Dirk has Jason Terry on his shitlist, I expect Harris to get plenty more time to shine. Go Badgers.

Al Harrington, 25- Playing for the Hawks again, getting comfortable as a leading scorer, he's going to put up big numbers.

Udonis Haslem, 25- Hopefully he doesn't get a bloated contract, or let go. He had solid stats this year, and will probably improve next year.

Caron Butler, 25- Great stats this year, and he will only improve under Jackson.

Luke Walton, 25- Not going to be a big time player, but he will get a lot more PT this year because of the return to the triangle offense.

Luke Ridnour, 24- Great shooter, great assist to turnover ratio. He's all upside.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]

Some known players who are about to break out:
Dwight Howard
Chris Bosh
Ben Gordon
Tyson Chandler


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't most consider Gordon and Chandler very good players already? FWIW, I think Chandler will be as good if not better as Wallace next season.

[DangerGoodson]

I think Devin Harris is going to have a good 2nd year at Dallas. Jason Terry isn't a true point gaurd, and isn't nearly as quick or as good as a defender as Harris. Plus Avery Johnson borught him along slowly last year as he didn't want a rookie PG in his 1st season as a coach, but I think that will change next year as Harris reminds me of Steve Nash, perfect for Dallas.

A huge sleeper is Ndudi Ebi of the t-wolves. They got a new coach and are cleaning house this year. I think they are going move to a younger quicker lineup and with the wolves salary cap sitatuion Ebi a former 1st rounder might be one of there few options. Plus, I know it was garbage time but he played the last two games last year and look good (avg 15pts 8 Boards)


Also what about Reggie Evans of Seattle. He is a monster on the boards?

Btw the way your centers are trash. Well, I guess all centers in the league suck, so on second thought nevermind.

[DangerGoodson]

Phoenix beat me to Devin. [censored]'em Bucky.

[Phoenix1010]

If they keep Gordon on the bench next year I'll eat my hat. Last year was the introduction, next year is going to be his coming out party. He will become an elite player next year, whereas he was more of a second or third tier star this year.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
Phoenix beat me to Devin. [censored]'em Bucky.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll third Devin Harris. Guy is nasty and with Avery's help could develop into a great PG.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
If they keep Gordon on the bench next year I'll eat my hat. Last year was the introduction, next year is going to be his coming out party. He will become an elite player next year, whereas he was more of a second or third tier star this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I don't know for sure but I think that Chandler and Curry are both FA's (don't recall if it's restricted or unrestricted) this summer? Or is it next? Also, what's the deal with Curry's health? If they can get both back, I am certain they'll win the East.

[Clarkmeister]

I actually traded Caron Butler for Ben Gordon midway through the year last year. Ridnour is a great call, I think he'll keep getting better.

[Clarkmeister]

I'll keep my eye on Ebi. He could be a good roster-filler-outer for the league minimum. Nice tip, thanks.

Reggie gets rebounds, but almost nothing else and he kills your FT%.

Yeah, my centers stink. I'm trying to find a way to justify moving Chandler to Center but it'll be hard if they bring back Curry.

[Clarkmeister]

A guy from Wisconsin traded for Devin Harris late last year (he way way overpaid - gave up the 3rd pick in this years draft for him). No way can I get him.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
If they can get both back, I am certain they'll win the East.

[/ QUOTE ]

Biiiig stretch. The Pacers are winning the East next year, guaranteed. If Pat Riley takes some kind of coaching role in Miami, the Heat become the second strongest team in the league. If the Pistons keep Larry Brown, they'll win as many games as they want to, again. Who knows what Lebron is going to do in his third year? And lets not forget about the New Jersey RJ/VC/JK experiment, which could make a lot of noise. Unlike this year, the East is looking to be stacked up top next year. Chicago is going to have to overachieve just to take third. I still like them for 50+ wins though, if they retain both big men.

Sorry for the thread tangent Clark.

[Josh W]

The danger with ridnour is he's on a team with all free agents. I dunno what your league schedule is like, but try to watch how the sonics shape up.

When you have great shooters like rayray and rashard and flip murray, it's easy to drive and dish. it's also easy to post guys up, because you can't double down. I guess i'm saying i like ridnour, but he was in the PERFECT situation for him last year. next year may be much different.

josh

[lil_o]

Clark,

Sleepers:
-Nenad Krstic, C
-Mike Sweetney, F
-Trevor Ariza, F
-Rasual Butler, F
-Shaun Livingston, G (when healthy)
-TJ Ford, G (when healthy)
-Juan Dixon, G
-Nazr Mohammed, C (I think he may have just turned 28 but isn't old)
-Ronald Murray, G (if Ray Allen doesn't resign with Seattle)
-Joel Pryzbilla, C
-Sebastian Telfair, G
-Jamaal Tinsley, G (this guy is so far under everyones radar)

Solid Draft Contributors:
-Chris Paul
-Danny Granger
-Fran Vasquez
-Andrew Bogut (more likely to pick it up after allstar break)
-Raymond Felton

[DangerGoodson]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll keep my eye on Ebi. He could be a good roster-filler-outer for the league minimum. Nice tip, thanks.

Reggie gets rebounds, but almost nothing else and he kills your FT%.

Yeah, my centers stink. I'm trying to find a way to justify moving Chandler to Center but it'll be hard if they bring back Curry.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know this is off topic clark, but do you have any word on Curry's heart thing, I'm in a similar('keeper') league and have him on my team....

[LBJ]

I'd say some sleepers are Nenad Krystc, Juan Dixon (when/if Larry Hughes leaves), and Raymond Felton (if he starts in the NBA fairly early in his rookie year).

Watch out for Anderson Varejao (Brazillian forward from the Cavs) in 1 or 2 years, he's gonna be sick.

[tomahawk]

I don't think Gordon will be a first tier star next year at all. He shoots the ball well, but it seems he forces way too much (barely 40% FGs), and his all-round game isn't very good. He doesn't rebound the ball and has more TOs than assists.

He is definately good, but a little overestimated this season IMO.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think Gordon will be a first tier star next year at all. He shoots the ball well, but it seems he forces way too much (barely 40% FGs), and his all-round game isn't very good. He doesn't rebound the ball and has more TOs than assists.

He is definately good, but a little overestimated this season IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

The main thing that gave Gordon so much publicity was his amazing 4th quarters. If he could play like he did in the 4th over the course of a game he'd be a fantastic player. For some reason in his rookie year the only time he seemed to put it all together was the 4th.

[Josh W]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think Gordon will be a first tier star next year at all. He shoots the ball well, but it seems he forces way too much (barely 40% FGs), and his all-round game isn't very good. He doesn't rebound the ball and has more TOs than assists.

He is definately good, but a little overestimated this season IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

The main thing that gave Gordon so much publicity was his amazing 4th quarters. If he could play like he did in the 4th over the course of a game he'd be a fantastic player. For some reason in his rookie year the only time he seemed to put it all together was the 4th.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is because he was a bench player. That means that for most of the 1st/3rd quarters, he'd be riding pine. The second quarter would also be spotty play, based on foul trouble, effectiveness.

But because he was so clutch, Skiles would have him on the floor in the 4th consistently.

[Bulldog]

The real deep FBB Philly sleeper is Willie Green. Igoudala is nice, and Cheeks will love the way he plays, so Green might not get the PT he needs if Cheeks plays Korver as much as O'Brien did.

[Clarkmeister]

Good stuff guys. Keep it coming.

[WEASEL45]

JR Smith should get more time this year and he started doing well at the end of last season. He will probably average 15 or so a game this year

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
JR Smith should get more time this year and he started doing well at the end of last season. He will probably average 15 or so a game this year

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw him his senior year of HS, he was amazing. Before the game he was dropping three's from half court and doing amazing dunks. I have no doubt he's going to be sensational.

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
Josh Smith

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably going to be overrated, but will get lots of playing time, because, well, there's no other draw in Atlanta.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
Chris Bosh

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/heart.gif

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
Jameer Nelson

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't know how to feel about him. I think he's a good solid PG, but will be hard pressed to find playing time with Francis there. If you want a sleeper G, who will get more PT, look at Bogans over on the Bobcats.

[wayabvpar]

[ QUOTE ]
Luke Ridnour, 24- Great shooter, great assist to turnover ratio. He's all upside.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't consider Ridnour a great shooter. He is a good playmaker and can score if needed (as well as an EXCELLENT free throw shooter), but his outside jumper (especially from behind the line) still needs some work.

His offensive game actually reminds me a lot of Gary Payton in his first couple of years- quick, creative around the basket, but not a great jump-shooter. If Luke ever starts knocking down open jumpers consistently, he will be really good.

Good call on Collison- he is a smart player with a huge upside IMHO.

Reggie Evans is a 1 trick pony. Rebounding is all he can do.

[Phoenix1010]

Well I haven't watched too many Sonics game this year, but Ridnour's .376 3 point percentage is better than decent. At 40th in the league, he even has Ray Allen beat. I would agree that he could improve on that though. His FG% is pretty weak overall.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll keep my eye on Ebi. He could be a good roster-filler-outer for the league minimum. Nice tip, thanks.

Reggie gets rebounds, but almost nothing else and he kills your FT%.

Yeah, my centers stink. I'm trying to find a way to justify moving Chandler to Center but it'll be hard if they bring back Curry.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know this is off topic clark, but do you have any word on Curry's heart thing, I'm in a similar('keeper') league and have him on my team....

[/ QUOTE ]

Haven't heard anything other than the Bulls want to keep both him and Chandler.

[Clarkmeister]

For those who followed the Clips - How does Livingston look? Is he going to be a perennial all-star type or just a solid pg. What do you think of him compared to Chris Paul or Deron Williams?

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
For those who followed the Clips - How does Livingston look? Is he going to be a perennial all-star type or just a solid pg. What do you think of him compared to Chris Paul or Deron Williams?

[/ QUOTE ]

People actually follow the Clips?

[xadrez]

From what Ive read Livingston has phenomenal talent. I think it'll take him a couple years to put it all together though.

[MarkL444]

darko? /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
From what Ive read Livingston has phenomenal talent. I think it'll take him a couple years to put it all together though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is Livingston worth more than Paul, Williams or Felton at PG? That's a key question for me as I can likely get him.

[Clarkmeister]

Any more opinions on this? What about rookies who had good summer league games or others who look to be immediate contributors? Has the free agent shuffle really helped any of the up and comers who aren't "name" players yet?

[mmbt0ne]

Whoever is going to be the 4th man on PHX just shot up in value.

[SammyKid11]

Can't believe no one has mentioned Josh Howard. Guy put up very respectable numbers in just his second season -- with a lot of that bump coming in the second half of the season and the playoffs. Finley's on the decline (meaning more offensive touches for Howard), Howard's young, and he contributes in a wide variety of ways, all of them things you get points for. His stats from the entirety of last year (remember his second half was stronger) are as follows:

FT% - .733
FG% - .475
3pt% - .296
rebounds - 6.4
assists - 1.4
blocks - 0.6
steals - 1.53
points - 12.6
turnovers - 1.6

Believe me, if he continues to improve at the current rate (I am a Mavs fan, so call me biased...but I actually watch every game so I see it), these numbers will seem paltry by 2-3 seasons from now. He could very easily be an 17 and 8 kinda guy this season (along with 2 steals and close to 1 block each game).

Anyway, hope that helps.

[Popinjay]

[ QUOTE ]
Any more opinions on this? What about rookies who had good summer league games or others who look to be immediate contributors? Has the free agent shuffle really helped any of the up and comers who aren't "name" players yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ike Diogu definitely. He played very well in the summer league and I think he's playing for Golden State which means lots of playing time. Other standout from that summer league was Nate Robinson who put up very very nice stats.

[lil_o]

Nate Robinson, Hakim Warrick, Eddie Basden, Sean May, Dwight Howard, Raymond Felton, Ike Diogu, Andris Biedrins, Chris Paul, Andrew Bogut, Travis Outlaw, Kevin Martin, Chris Wilcox all had good summer leagues.

[Clarkmeister]

bump for start of season.

[IndieMatty]

[ QUOTE ]
bump for start of season.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is Zaza Pachulia (sp) picked up?

[SomethingClever]

Bynum.



Not.

[Hornacek]

How the hell did you get KG, Brand, and Arenas in a 16-team league? How many years ago did these league start?

[morello]

[ QUOTE ]
How the hell did you get KG, Brand, and Arenas in a 16-team league? How many years ago did these league start?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pff, I'm in a 20 team, 5 keepers league going into its 5th season. My keepers are KG, Duncan, Ben Wallace, Vince Carter and Paul Pierce.

Clearly I could do a better job in real life than Rob Babcock!

[Pudge714]

[ QUOTE ]

Clearly I could do a better job in real life than Rob Babcock!

[/ QUOTE ]

And you are proud of this why?

[SCfuji]

[ QUOTE ]
Sebastian Telfair

[/ QUOTE ]

saw him play in the vegas summer league game one day. awesome- the guy is lightning quick.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
How the hell did you get KG, Brand, and Arenas in a 16-team league? How many years ago did these league start?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is our 3rd year. 16 teams with 19 man rosters (16 regular spots and 3 developmental spots. Start 12 each week. 4G, 4F, 2C and 2 flex.

Essentially, I assembled the team this way:

I got lucky in the draft as the Kobe rape case was underway. Also, some players weren't yet aware of how important across-the-board production was. So drafting at #15 and #18, I got Kobe at #15, and Ben Wallace at #18. I turned Kobe into Brand and Hinrich, and I turned Ben Wallace and a package of other players into KG once Ben became center eligible in our league.

As for Gilbert, he has a large salary in our league and we have a cap. I am WAY over the cap, and picked him up for an assortment of cheap players and draft picks, most notably Primoz Brezec who was at the minimum contract and a center, thus with high value.

This offseason I packaged Prince, Dampier and Ben Gordon (all with cheap contracts) for Gasol and Ilgauskas (also with high contracts).

The upshot is that in a league with a $65 million cap, my team is at $104 million, $15 million more than the next highest team.

The current roster after offseason moves (trades, draft and free agency) is as follows:

Starting Lineup (Pos - Name - Salary)
G - Gilbert Arenas (9.5)
G - Sam Cassell (6.7)
G - Chauncey Billups (5.4)
G - Rick Brunson (1.1)

F - Kevin Garnett (14.0)
F - Elton Brand (14.0)
F - Pau Gasol (14.0)
F - Rashard Lewis (10.0)
F - Gerald Wallace (4.3)

C - Zydrunas Ilgauskas (8.0)
C - Tyson Chandler (4.8)
C - Lorenzen Wright (3.0)

Bench
G - Derek Fisher (1.1)
G - Jason Hart (1.1)
F - James Jones (1.1)
C - Adonal Foyle (4.3)

Developmental
G - Monta Ellis (0.6)
Open
Open

[LBJ]

What happens if you go over the cap? You're more than $40 million over, but what are the consequences?

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
What happens if you go over the cap? You're more than $40 million over, but what are the consequences?

[/ QUOTE ]

The cap is the league fee. So it's $65 for everyone. Teams over the cap pay dollar for dollar luxury tax twice per year, once on opening day and once at the trade deadline. So I'll pay about $145 compared to most teams' $65.

Considering that the best case scenario (winning the regular season as the top seed and the playoffs) only nets me like 60% of the prize pool, it's actually a pretty -EV investment. We have 3 rounds of playoffs (8 teams) and the most any team is ever favored is about 6-1, so at best it's 50-50 to win once I get to the playoffs even with a dominant team like this. Last year I lost in the finals to a team I had been like 22-5 against during the season, which was one of the most extreme records in the league.

But I just posture as the fantasy basketball Steinbrenner for now.

Before he got hurt his rookie year, many guys were enamoured with Collison. His preseason play was great. Another year of healing and ridnour improving should help him a bunch.

[Jules22]

[ QUOTE ]
Caron Butler, 25- Great stats this year, and he will only improve under Jackson.

[/ QUOTE ]

butler plays for the wizards, he got traded for kwame brown

[bugstud]

I'm not sure that I like the gasol deal. I think you're got too much money in the F position right now, anyway.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure that I like the gasol deal. I think you're got too much money in the F position right now, anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was more for Ilgauskas, who is a top 5-6 Center in a league where 32 *have* to start. I hated losing Prince, but Gordon is very one dimensional, and Dampier, while cheaper, is no Ilgauskas. Plus, this deal gave me a hammerlock on the FG%, Block, Rebound and Point categories.

If Gordon blossoms or Z gets hurt, it could be very bad for me. Gordon is under a Rookie contract so his salary won't increase for 3 more years from it's current 2.2 level. Ilgauskas OTOH will increase an average of 2.5 mil a year over that span.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Caron Butler, 25- Great stats this year, and he will only improve under Jackson.

[/ QUOTE ]

butler plays for the wizards, he got traded for kwame brown

[/ QUOTE ]

Not when I made that post. He'll be even better now that he's escaped the Kobe Bryant show.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Caron Butler, 25- Great stats this year, and he will only improve under Jackson.

[/ QUOTE ]

butler plays for the wizards, he got traded for kwame brown

[/ QUOTE ]

Not when I made that post. He'll be even better now that he's escaped the Kobe Bryant show.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. He really came on strong late last year too.

[andyfox]

I don't know about the NBA, but I do know that the Minnesota Vikings were all up and cumming this past week.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about the NBA, but I do know that the Minnesota Vikings were all up and cumming this past week.

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boooooooooooooooooo

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[Clarkmeister]

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If they keep Gordon on the bench next year I'll eat my hat.

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They just might given his preseason.

[Aces McGee]

Clark

A few that I haven't seen mentioned:

McCants
Orien Greene
Gomes

Full disclosure: I'm a Celtics fan.

I'm hearing a lot of very good stuff about Gomes and Greene. Specifically, that Gomes could be starting for us at some point this year.

As for Greene, he's been very good this preseason, and the point guard job is certainly up for grabs. I expect they'll ship Banks once he gets healthy (they've been trying to move him for a while and with the Dickau signing and Greene's performance in the preseason, he's now even more likely to go).

He's probably already been snatched up, but Sarunas Jasikevicius is a guy to get. He can dish as well as Tinsley but can shoot it a lot better. Espcially given Tinsley's injury history, it'll be sooner, rather than later, that he takes over at the helm.

-McGee

[MoreWineII]

I would have said Travis Outlaw until Nate's mysterious starting rotation came to light. Someday maybe this organization will wake up to the fact that Randolph and Miles are both total pieces of [censored].

We want a "youth movement" but we sit two of our best young players on the bench, Outlaw and Webster. This team isn't even going to win 20 games so WHO [censored] CARES??!! Play the young guys.

God, I [censored] hate this franchise...and the fans are just as clueless.

[Popinjay]

Not up and coming but a guy a lot of people have forgotten about because of an injured season. Devean George is very good and I imagine will get a lot of PT on the Lakers this year.

[Clarkmeister]

He had a good preseason.