my turn for help please

[Ray Zee]

i just ordered a new box. it will be built this coming week locally and am i missing anything? i do not need to much in frills.
p-4 3.4 gig
1 gig of two sticks of 512
pci express board with nvidia 6600 card
floppy drive
cd 24x
dvd-rw
anything else he is doing that is standard i dont know.
if there is something i need included that he may not have advised me to do please give some advice.

[BusterStacks]

What kind of hard drive?

[Ray Zee]

120 gig 7200 rpm. i dont know the brand if that really matters.
he is also going to install a virus protection for me. and syware and adawre. and move my files and set up my connections for me. which i cant do myself as yeat and move address book.
whole cost so far is $1050. i expect to pay more for the hand holding and being able to take it into town if there is a probelm and he comes out to the house. thanks/

[BusterStacks]

seems pretty good then. enjoy.

[tinhat]

[ QUOTE ]

cd 24x
dvd-rw


[/ QUOTE ]

Not much point in a CD drive - I'd get DVD instead (can't cost much more if anything over CD). I like to use a burner only for burning so if you're going to have a second drive, IMO only DVD makes sense...

Mike

[Ray Zee]

one is a cd dvd burner. he said the second would be good for copying cds easily or playing them. i think that whats he said so i told him to put the two in. are you saying both should be dvd cd burners. you are dealing with a real novice here. thanks.

[BusterStacks]

no, he's saying one should be a DVD-reader. I'm not sure why though, as you can't copy 1:1 DVDs...

[tinhat]

[ QUOTE ]
one is a cd dvd burner. he said the second would be good for copying cds easily or playing them. i think that whats he said so i told him to put the two in. are you saying both should be dvd cd burners. you are dealing with a real novice here. thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you've already decided on DVD, my suggestion is one dual-purpose DVD burner and one DVD reader, instead of the CD drive. Maybe I misunderstood OP but whether or not the CD you've chosen is a burner or just a reader, CD-only anything IMO is practically obsolete and therefore a waste of money.

With a dual-purpose DVD burner (AFAIK most are dual-purpose these days but still check that yours is) you burn DVDs and CDs in the same drive. So your second drive really only needs to be a reader. A DVD reader will read DVDs and CDs but a CD reader (or CD burner) can only read CDs.

Burners don't last forever so if you can minimze their use by only using them for burning, so much the better (and readers are at least half the cost of burners). But if your second drive is CD-anything (reader or burner) you'll have to use the DVD burner to read DVDs that you burn, or games that are DVD-format like Myst IV.

Therefore I suggest you check if the DVD burner you're getting is dual-purpose and if so, drop the CD drive in favor of a DVD reader. If the DVD burner you're getting is not dual-purpose, I suggest considering upgrading to dual-purpose. If there are DVD burners that are not dual-purpose, it can't be cheaper than having to buy a CD burner also. And DVD readers are cheap to begin with.

Mike

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
one is a cd dvd burner. he said the second would be good for copying cds easily or playing them. i think that whats he said so i told him to put the two in. are you saying both should be dvd cd burners. you are dealing with a real novice here. thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stick with the dvd burner only. The second drive is overkill and just waste of money. I would rather put that money on a bigger (if you have use for that) or better hd.

If you ask many people they say that the brand on the hd is what matters the most, noone wants to have a bad disk go broke when you least expect it. My prefered choice is Maxtor (with fluid bearings for less noice). I would also ask for a Zalman cooler for the cpu for less noice. Small changes like that cost nothing but makes big diffrence in the long run.

What about sound, soundchip built into mobo? No need for a nic?

Just my 2c.

[MyMindIsGoing]

"Burners don't last forever so if you can minimze their use by only using them for burning"

The typical user uses it so little that it last longer than the computer could be considered "modern". The quality of the products today and the price they cost there is no need to buy one reader and one burner. Might as well wear out (never seen that happen) the burner and buy a new one if it actually wears out.

I would recomend the Pioneer 109 dvd burner.

[Ray Zee]

thanks so far guys. the sound card is on the board so thats what i get. i am beginning to understand the drives. so from what i gather so far i am basically not missing anything that may be a hassle later on. i am looking for a good computer that is hassle free and fairly good quality that wont be lacking two years down the road.

[MrTrik]

Within two years you will probably want more than a Gig of ram. So you might just wanna make sure you won't have to eat chips to add more. This is often an issue 2-3 years down the road.

[MyMindIsGoing]

[ QUOTE ]
Within two years you will probably want more than a Gig of ram. So you might just wanna make sure you won't have to eat chips to add more. This is often an issue 2-3 years down the road.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, for a general use computer (I assume this is no hardcore gaming box we talk about), 1gb will last as long, longer than the speed of the cpu. 1gb is much more than enough today. If you were a hard core gamer or would like to optimize the computer for video editing or something like that then maybe it would be good to get more ram, so you wont have to worry in the future, but otherwise just a waste of money. I would rather have 1gb of high quality ram (like Corsair) than 2gb generic.

Building a box that wont just make trouble has alot to do with the parts. For example, I would rahter have a 3.0ghz cpu with quiet zalman cooling, than a 3.4 with stock cooling. Hardly anyone would notice the change in speed (unless you told them) but the lower noice people will notice. Same with memory, I would rather have Corsairs budget memory (witch is not as fast, but fast enough) than some high speed generic no name ram. Less to worry about and hardly noticable decrease in speed. The quality of the ram and hd is the most important as far as I am conserned, then comes mobo and power supply.

Buying the latest/best/fastest is not the way to go as far as I am conserned if you want a troublefree computer. I rather go for the higher quality stuff, that might be the same price but a bit "slower".

My computer (in case anyone cares, not the hottest, but works perfect and fit my needs):
Case: Antec Sonata (semi quiet)
Cpu: 3.0ghz P4
Cpu-cooler: Zalman 7700
Ram: 1gb Corsair value
mobo: intel rock lake (built in sound and nic)
hd: 200gb sata maxtor with fluid bearings
dvdr: pioneer 109
gfx: ati radeon 9600, fanless
monitor: samsung 710T

All payed for with poker winnings of cource /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I like to build everything as quiet as possible. My last computer was so quiet that I mistakenly a few times turned it off since I didn't notice it was on (I never connect the front leds) /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[BluffTHIS!]

Ray,

One extra that I found helpful when I got my last computer was an Maxtor one-touch backup external hardrive if backups are important to you. It has software to regularly schedule backups that works great. Also, unless you are having it done for you or know how to transfer files via a cable, you can also use it to download your files from your old computer and then hook it up to your new one, though of course you have to reinstall all software. You also did not mention a monitor and I assume you are going to use your old one. If you want a new one, the 'official' 2+2 multitabling monitor, the Dell flat panel LCD 20" 2001FP can't be beat, and allows for 4 online tables w/no overlap, assuming that is important to you. Even if it's not, it is an awesome monitor.

[gojacketz]

What is a floppy drive? Do they still make floppy disks?

You probably got it for $5, but still a waste of money.

Gojacketz

[mmbt0ne]

Can we expect you to be 8-tabling the Party 30/60 soon?

[Ray Zee]

i will look into a back up but most stuff can go poof and it wont change my life. i just copy everything to a cd one a month. but that would make it easier.

monitor comes next. i still want to buy locally so i dont have to hassle if problems. costco has a viewsonic2000 that i might get. it is 700 bucks and has all the good specs of the dell i think. most of all you can take it back up to a year later no questions asked. so i may try that first. anyone know about this monitor.
then i need to get a new scanner and maybe printer. the all in one ones usualy dont do anyone function well but they look like the ticket as they copy and fax as well. are they okay nowadays. costco has some HP's same reasons for me.

[Ray Zee]

i need the floppy as the camera i have uses them and its real convenient to pop one out of the camera and into the computer. remember i live in the past.

[Ray Zee]

if i do run for the hills. :-)

[cwsiggy]

Another good reason to have a DVD burner is that any backups you do will be easier as they store roughly 4-5 gigs as opposed to only 700mb's per disc. Have fun with it. I would definitely not get a cd drive and the DVD drive - redundant.

[Timer]

I've been looking at the HP 2610 four in one Printer, fax, copier and scanner. It also has all of the slots for your cameras and camcorders, etc. Cost is about $179 at Fry's.

Is your video card dual-head? This might be a dumb question, because I'm guessing that most state of the art video cards are dual-head these days. It's nice to be able to hook up a second monitor even if your main monitor is a 21 inch mac-daddy.

My monitor is the Samsung 21.3 inch 213T, and it's very nice. They're going for anywhere from $500-750. Highly reccommended.

I built my PC with a Maxtor drive, but its been a few years and it had a noise problem. This fluid bearing stuff sounds good though. I'd never heard of that before.

Now I have a couple of newbie questions. What does SATA mean in relation to hard drives, and what are the advantages/disadvantages over the older type HDs? Is SATA necessary for the average user?

What's this cooling system you're talking about? Is it just a fan, or an entire system?

I just bought an NEC 16x16 DVD+ RW drive. Is this a dual-purpose drive like everyone is talking about? Any opinions on the model?

Another question: if you only need one drive how do you copy from one CD to another?

Just reading this thread made me realize how much I'm out of touch about this stuff. For example I didn't know that a DVD disk held so much information. Can you burn your data to a DVD instead of a CD? Is it a permanent burn, or can you overwrite data like you can with some CDs. Are there two different kinds of DVD disks?

Enough for now, thanks.

[BluffTHIS!]

Ray,

Even though you want to buy locally, the Dell monitor I mentioned is about 749 w/no coupons which you might be able to find, and you won't be disappointed and they ship quick.

[Ray Zee]

timer, these are the same questions i am trying to find out.
what happens is that those that arent all that computer knowledgeable have a big gap in their ability to use them.
i would like to understand better those things you pose.

[MyMindIsGoing]

"I built my PC with a Maxtor drive, but its been a few years and it had a noise problem. This fluid bearing stuff sounds good though. I'd never heard of that before."

Hard drives are among the parts witch will last the shortest time. If it has a like whining sound it is startning to get old, if the sound is more of a scratchy type, then backup everything important now and get a new one as soon as possible. If it has clicking sounds, avoid having your computer on and prepare for emergency backup, the drive will fail soon.

"My monitor is the Samsung 21.3 inch 213T, and it's very nice. They're going for anywhere from $500-750. Highly reccommended."

I would also recomend the Samsung 213T over the dell 2001fp for a general purpose computer.

"What does SATA mean in relation to hard drives, and what are the advantages/disadvantages over the older type HDs? Is SATA necessary for the average user?"

Sata is the connector type and the way to transfer the data to and from the device. Sata is standard nowdays, and what is standard is what you want. It is not "necessary" but what is "necessary" in life realy? If you gonna get a new hard drive (and your mother board supports sata, witch all new ones does) then buy a sata disk.

"What's this cooling system you're talking about?"

Me? I was talking about the cpu cooler: http://www.zalmanusa.com/usa/product/view.asp?idx=145&code=

Review: http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041213/index.html

From review: "The copper version of the new cooler should cost around $50, giving it a decent price-performance ratio considering both its cooling power and ultra quiet noise levels"

"if you only need one drive how do you copy from one CD to another?"

You copy the disc to the hard drive, then insert a blank one and then transfer it to the cd.

"I just bought an NEC 16x16 DVD+ RW drive. Is this a dual-purpose drive like everyone is talking about? Any opinions on the model?"

Many dvd drives are acually nec inside, so buying a nec directly is not a bad thing. That dual purpose talk felt very old-style. All new drives can burn both cds, dvds and what ever else you wanna burn. The pioneer 109 can burn: dvd-r, dvd-r dual layer, dvd+r, dvd+r dual layer, dvd-rw, dvd+r, cd-r, cd-rw. Everthing you want.

"Can you burn your data to a DVD instead of a CD? Is it a permanent burn, or can you overwrite data like you can with some CDs. Are there two different kinds of DVD disks?"

Yes DVD is very good for data, each disc can take about 4gb of data. There are both dvd-r discs witch can be written to once, and dvd-rw that can be written to several times (just like cd-r and cd-rw). Yes there are two types of dvd discs (actually three), dvd-r and dvd+r. Any new burner (like pioneer 109) can handle both types. So just get a good burner and worry about the discs later (i prefer dvd-r though).

[Timer]

[ QUOTE ]
"Can you burn your data to a DVD instead of a CD? Is it a permanent burn, or can you overwrite data like you can with some CDs. Are there two different kinds of DVD disks?"

Yes DVD is very good for data, each disc can take about 4gb of data. There are both dvd-r discs witch can be written to once, and dvd-rw that can be written to several times (just like cd-r and cd-rw). Yes there are two types of dvd discs (actually three), dvd-r and dvd+r. Any new burner (like pioneer 109) can handle both types. So just get a good burner and worry about the discs later (i prefer dvd-r though).

[/ QUOTE ]

You have been ever so kind with your help. I just have a couple of follow-up questions.

This is exactly what it says on my receipt for my NEC burner:

DVD+,-RW NEC 16x16. I'm assuming it does the things your Pioneer does. Am I correct? If I'm wrong, what am I missing? Also, what is the difference between DVD-R and DVD+R?

What exactly are fluid bearings? Do all of the modern drives have this feature?

Thanks again for your help.

[MyMindIsGoing]

I see no reason to get rid of that nec and buy a pioneer, it will do fine. If I am not mistaken Piooneer 109 has a Nec chip in it. So they are pretty much the same thing.

As far as the fluid bearing is conserned, my english is not good enough to explain. http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/F/Fl/Fluid_bearing.htm has some explenations:

"In addition to their long life, fluid bearings generally have very low friction -- far better than mechanical bearings."

Lower friction = less heat and less noise and longer life. There are of cource some very good hard drives without fluid bearings. The main reason I like it beacuse it is less noisy. All new Maxtor Diamondmax drives has fluid bearings.

The diffrerence between dvd-r and dvd+r is not that big realy, just how they worn internaly and the discs are somewhat diffrent. There used to be burners that only burned one type but those days are over. There also used to be big compability issues when you tried to play the disc somewhere else than in your own burner. Nowdays they are almost the same.

http://www.videohelp.com/dvd has some info about both formats.

[Rick Nebiolo]

Ray,

Get two internal hard drives and use a partitioning scheme to isolate operating system and programs from data as much as possible.

My first HD is partitioned as follows:

C: WinXP and Programs (30 GB)
D: Data (except music) (75 GB)
E: Spare (10 GB) (now using for PT databases)

Second HD:

F: Page File (2 GB) (some geeks think this speeds things up, not sure myself)
G: Music (95 GB)
H: Ghost Image: 16 GB (I use Norton Ghost to make a perfect, restorable image of my C: drive. Ghost works from a floppy, so if I had a HD failure I can get back to EXACTLY where I was.)
I: Downloads (1.2 GB) (this is overkill).

I use two external drives to back up music and data. One is just an old drive in a special converter case.

If you don't have that much data you can use your second internal drive for a data backup partition and for your Ghost partition.

I like Radified's (http://radified.com/index2.html) advice and guides for creating partitions and maintaining a stable computer and using Norton Ghost.

Good luck with your new machine.

~ Rick