the low blinds in heads up is killing me

[pearljam]

Because of the new level the blinds are usually much lower when it reaches heads up (20+2). I am not a heads up player, but I can push fold heads up with high blinds with the best of them. Please somebody post a primer of sorts on how to play heads up when the blidns are 100-200 and around there.

[Karak567]

One good tip I always found helpful for *GASP* post-flop heads up play is "bet middle pair like top pair - but don't call off chips on middle pair like top pair"

[OrcaDK]

You're heads up at level 6? What does your HU play matter then?

[pearljam]

It's not that uncommon (unless I have been seing more of them then I should) for it to be heads up at level 5, a couple of bad players and rigged juiced flops and your there.

[valenzuela]

OK 20X the BB requuires a raise of 4x the BB, and an all-in. Those are the two levels, u must always be agressive so if someone raises or u fold or u re-raise.(re-raise all-in). When its like 15-18 x the BB, its 3,5 and all-in. This system was invented by me so it might not be optimal but I like it.(maybe 15-18 x the BB requires a push/fold game as well)

[microbet]

There is a HU and shorthanded forum. Does anyone know if it sucks or not? You could practice playing HU tournaments.

[Blarg]

It's easily one of the best forums. HU and short-handed play is tough and not the first thing players get into, or they get bounced out fast and hard. Lots of the best 2+2 players do a lot of posting there, or at least used to when I was looking at it regularly. That forum can be really great.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
Because of the new level the blinds are usually much lower when it reaches heads up (20+2). I am not a heads up player, but I can push fold heads up with high blinds with the best of them. Please somebody post a primer of sorts on how to play heads up when the blidns are 100-200 and around there.

[/ QUOTE ]

a clear example of the downside to playing Party's structure--
no postflop skills. in order to be a complete player, you gotta know how to play beyond Push Fold Preflop Poker .

[Blarg]

I'll toss out a few ideas, hopefully non-stinky.

Well, at that level, push-fold better be done with the goods and/or with reads. Developing reads on your opponent is very important.

You might want to complete some small blinds with utter crap, and every intention of abandoning the hand on the flop unless you hit a miracle, just to get him used to seeing you play small blinds. Do it with really good hands sometimes too, instead of always raising or going all -in. That way he won't figure you couldn't possibly be completing unless you have a crappy hand, prompting him to put a huge raise on you every time you complete your SB, which will basically be doing a lot of donating to him and making it so that you never have the luxury of completing a SB. Don't make your SB completions too rare or you signal the strength of your hand. This also sets you up for a great trap in case the occasional miracle flop does come your way, or you happen to squeak by into a miracle turn.

Similarly, varying the size of your bets and raises almost at random when you do have a hand, at least once in a while, helps do the same thing -- keep it harder to read you and know exactly how to play you by the size of your bet.

Finally, realize that people value hands differently than you do and differently over time. Some guys thing K9s is a much better hand than K9, and some don't. Some do only if they've just been beaten on a hand they think they should have won, or just had a blind stolen. And, they can become bored or exhausted from nervousness and start playing hands they wouldn't, or valuing hands differently -- for instance playing bottom pair or a straight as well as that aforementioned K9. Remember that playing standards change during play, so just because someone calls loose or tight at first doesn't mean you're under no obligation to refine your reads of them and notice changes. You definitely have to come off auto-pilot. I've often noticed very tight or even-tempered players get flustered after a longish heads up session(well, longish for SNG's) and start playing some really weird cards, maybe trying to force a win or something.

Try to notice that. I don't believe in only taking notes on good players or finding some way to minimize note taking, like some players, and some very good players, do. I've found my notes extremely handy heads up and ITM. Under the stress of HU play, you can forget some of your observations or incorrectly assign them lower priorities as new observations flood in and take their place in the forefront of your thinking. Notes help keep perspective and memory accurate and accessible.

They keep you aware of changes in pacing, too. When you see a note that says something like "surprisingly passive w/A9 HU when Axx flops" and then notice him getting extremely aggressive with A2, it could signal changes in the pace of the game that you'll be glad to know. Maybe he's losing his cool, maybe he's mixing up his game, whatever. Notes help you keep track of the flow of the game, too.

Anyway, I guess I'm saying to pay attention. /images/graemlins/smile.gif And realize the way someone plays can change up quite a bit, not always intentionally or predictably.

You're still going to have to push crap or bet out on a missed flop here and there, most likely, at least sometimes. But sometimes you can clue in on especially dangerous or good times to do it according to more than the mere math.

[lastchance]

Big Stack HU is a lot different than regular SNG play. Here, you must play "poker." This is where you can go Giga or DN. Play literally every hand, try to move your opponents off much of their holdings, play tricky. You have to really observe your opponents and outplay them postflop. It requires a lot of thinking and good play rather than formulaic standard plays.

[jeffraider]

I'm actually very comfy headsup at party with the blinds small. I play very passively and carefully until the blinds get big and then I go into nutball mode. The effect is I either find a big hand before the blinds get big and bust him or damage him a bit, or I get a lot more credit from him during my first 2-3 pushes and end up taking back every chip i let him have early and then some.

[microbet]

I would like to play some HU. Where do they play it? I haven't seen it on Party. Also, are there any particular posters you know that are good in the HU forum?

I would think if you have very deep stacks HU, your job is to try and figure out what mistakes your opponent makes and get them to make them over and over.

If you can't do that, at least try not to be easily exploitable yourself.

[microbet]

Seems like the HU and shorthanded forum is almost exclusively about 6-max.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]

I would think if you have very deep stacks HU, your job is to try and figure out what mistakes your opponent makes and get them to make them over and over.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Limp - what does he do? If he limps and you raise - what does he do? Etc etc.

Most players do things that are exploitable (of course more so if you get a great hand). I would be able to trap me quite easy HU.

[curtains]

I have to be honest that playing these new tourneys so far, I suspect my ROI will go up a little bit because of the new structure. It could be that since it's been invented Ive only played on Friday and Saturday however with all the idiots and avoided the 4 am sessions.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to play some HU. Where do they play it? I haven't seen it on Party. Also, are there any particular posters you know that are good in the HU forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can play heads up SNGs at Paradise and Stars. At Paradise, they have the exact same structure as their normal SNGs, you just start with 2 people instead of 10. I haven't played one at Stars yet, but it's probably the same idea. If anybody wants to fire off a couple of $5 or $10 HU SNGs at Stars, I'm going to be playing in the $11 rebuy in a few minutes, so I'll be around.

Also, you could consider opening a private ring game and playing heads up with fixed blinds.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
I have to be honest that playing these new tourneys so far, I suspect my ROI will go up a little bit because of the new structure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I enjoy it to. I don't know if I am just on a very good ITM run lately but I am comfortable with the deviation from push/fold.

And if your opponent is still in push/fold-mode, it is very exploitable for a patient player (this was the third time he did this exact thing).

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (2 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t3592)
Hero (t4408)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t300</font>, Hero calls t200.

Flop: (t700) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button calls [t3292] , Hero calls t3192.

Turn: (t3892) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: (t3892) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t3892

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has 2s 2c (four of a kind, twos).
Button has Qs Th (one pair, twos).
Outcome: Hero wins t3892. </font>

[Lefthander]

A ghost-raise! Or maybe the convertor messed up.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a HU and shorthanded forum. Does anyone know if it sucks or not? You could practice playing HU tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a great forum, but no discussion of NL HU play.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like the HU and shorthanded forum is almost exclusively about 6-max.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tons of 6-max there, but 6-max teaches a LOT about heads up play. I'd recommend everybody play some 6-max no matter how much they hate it, to improve their heads up game. It really changes your ideas about things -- or at least it will change the ideas of most new players about hand values and what sorts of plays to make short-handed and heads up.

People who have played a lot of 6-max can sometimes just destroy full-ring players when the game gets short.

As you can tell, I think there's a lot to be gained by playing 6-max, limit or no-limit, and probably by reading that forum while you do it, or just to expose yourself to the ideas. Pushing "any two" or crappy hands for instance becomes more comfortable when you realize and then experience enough through short-handed play how quickly hand values rise as the number of people playing drops. And plays like playing middle pair, stop and go's, betting any turn if the flop isn't bet, etc. have value in SNG play too. A lot of the actual "play" of SNG's is basically 6-max or less anyway.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to play some HU. Where do they play it? I haven't seen it on Party. Also, are there any particular posters you know that are good in the HU forum?

I would think if you have very deep stacks HU, your job is to try and figure out what mistakes your opponent makes and get them to make them over and over.

If you can't do that, at least try not to be easily exploitable yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Schneids and Natethagreat are among the really good and successful short-game players who post there. It's worth doing a search on their name and digging up their posts. These guys are very solid and so are their posts.

[lacky]

Ok, here's a time I should really keep my mouth shut, as everyone else has. Wtf, I'll post it anyway.

Heads up play is entirely based on the fact that the flop will miss your opponent 2/3 of the time, and even when they get a piece of it, they usualy wont like it much.

What you are hoping for is an opponent that folds too often. If you get a folder, they will have to have great cards to beat you. So, make small raises, small bets, small reraises, etc and see if you can get them to fold often. If you get someone willing to wait for the great cards, great hands while you take pot after pot, wear them down. If they bet big fold. Eventually you have all the chips and they will start pushing. If you win the push you call, its over, if not, go back to wearing them down.

If you get someone that pushes everytime you try to bet small, you will have to pick your spot and gambol, nothing else you can do.

If you are up against a good balanced opponent, you have to play well enough to win your share. If you know you can't, take the ultra aggressive push-push stance. you are rarely behand more than 40/60, and it keeps you from being a folder, the kiss of death heads up.

there ya go....

Steve

[benza13]

You can also play HU and SH on UB. They have every buy in level and you start with 1500 chips, normal blind structure or turbos, with twice as fast blinds. Very good for learning post flop heads up play, and the SH games are good for learning how to play the bubble with lower blinds, something that might be a little useful with the Party structure change, although it is unlikely that Party's change will have that big of an effect that this is really relevant.

[Steve]

I'm just mad at this new blind level now I have to re-program my bot again