Applying the AleoMagus "PP 10+1 recipe" to other SNGs

[chapstick]

Hi,

I've recently been playing SNGs on pokerroom. I found the AleoMagus strategy for the PP $10+1 SNGs, which was very very useful, and I believe it more-or-less works for the pokerroom $5+0.5 SNGs. (I don't think my "roll" justifies me playing 10+1 SNGs)

But I just discovered that the PP blind structure is very aggressive compared to pokerroom, which, to me at least, implies that the stratgey should probabaly be modified. Pokerroom starts you off with 1500 chips.

Does this blind structure mean that we should be able to play a little looser early in the tourney? Any general thoughts on how the "strategy" can be improved for this different structure?

Thanks for any insight.

[blackize]

With 1500 chips you shouldn't be playing much looser in the early levels. You can however make some looser calls because of the implied odds. Like you can play small pairs for set value if you think you can get paid off.

[chapstick]

Thanks. I see the point about the low pairs. AleoMagus suggests "for tighter play, fold 66 or lower", which I was doing. I'll try playing limping with these, and seeing how succesful I am.

So, hands like KQo and AJo are still bad to play? Even from late position, and if I'm pretty sure I'll see the flop for one or two BBs?

Should I be trying to steal more blinds earlier in the tourney?

Thanks

[Iamafish]

With T1500, the play is the same as on PP with only 800, or 1000. The main difference is you can start playing more agressive at an earlier level.

[Iamafish]

AJo? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[reecelights]

I avoid stealing earlier in the tournament for two reasons:

1. The blinds are so small it's no big increase to your stack, and with your larger starting stack, you don't need to just keep pace with the blinds
2. You give yourself a looser image and have less credibility later when you NEED to be stealing. You will get more respect for your raises if you have rarely raised before level 4.

[chapstick]

[ QUOTE ]
With T1500, the play is the same as on PP with only 800, or 1000. The main difference is you can start playing more agressive at an earlier level.

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I understand, there's good and bad aggression. Are you suggesting rasing by larger amounts PF, or betting more with hands like top pair top kicker on the flop?

Thanks

[Iamafish]

okay, it's basically the same as party, just with 1500.

[chapstick]

[ QUOTE ]
okay, it's basically the same as party, just with 1500.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol. Thanks. I'll learn slowly, I guess.

[gildwulf]

[ QUOTE ]
So, hands like KQo and AJo are still bad to play? Even from late position, and if I'm pretty sure I'll see the flop for one or two BBs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. If you play these anywhere except the BB or completing the SB on lvl 1 you are bleeding chips early on. If you are looking for extra playable hands to play from late position, try limping with 22-66 and KQs.

[chapstick]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes. If you play these anywhere except the BB or completing the SB on lvl 1 you are bleeding chips early on. If you are looking for extra playable hands to play from late position, try limping with 22-66 and KQs.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Much appreciated. I'll stick to the "recipe". It's worked wonders, actually. When I started I was playing way too lose early, gambling with the suited connectors and the like (too much tv I guess). I'm doing much better now though. Thanks.

[lastchance]

Look, you really need to play AJo on the button and in the CO. You really need to limp any 2 where there are 5 limpers ahead of you.

Implied odds give you a lot of room to play hands early. I mean, limping KQo in EP is stupid on every level, but instead of playing like AleoMagus, which is pretty solid given only 800 chips to start, you should be more playing like HoH guidelines, limping suited connectors in places, and finding ways to double up. You can actually draw to straights and flushes on Pokerroom. Use that.

On Party, you have a lot less chips, so these places are nowhere near as profitable, which means you've really got to tighten up.

And the AleoMagus guide is outdated. Practically no one follows that guide anymore due to ICM and better postflop play.

[Karak567]

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And the AleoMagus guide is outdated. Practically no one follows that guide anymore due to ICM and better postflop play.

[/ QUOTE ]

But it is still a very good starting point for anyone just jumping into SNGs, agreed?

I really think it is STILL a must read for anyone starting SNGs.

[lastchance]

Yeah. But don't treat it like it's the bible, cuz it's not.

"Play tight early, raise a lot late." That's pretty much what you get out of the guide.

[Karak567]

Yeah but some people think play tight means playing KTos in early position :-P.

[chapstick]

[ QUOTE ]
Implied odds give you a lot of room to play hands early. I mean, limping KQo in EP is stupid on every level, but instead of playing like AleoMagus, which is pretty solid given only 800 chips to start, you should be more playing like HoH guidelines, limping suited connectors in places, and finding ways to double up. You can actually draw to straights and flushes on Pokerroom. Use that.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hoh? Harrington on Hold'em? If so, I just got it last week. I'm only on page 40 or so.

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On Party, you have a lot less chips, so these places are nowhere near as profitable, which means you've really got to tighten up.
[\quote]

OK, this is what I was looking for. Is it right to say that with 1500 chips, in the early stages, I can approach a hand as if it were a limit hand? i.e. play drawing hands if there are a lot of limpers, play pairs for sets, etc.

[ QUOTE ]

And the AleoMagus guide is outdated. Practically no one follows that guide anymore due to ICM and better postflop play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see. That is interesting. I didn't know people considered it outdated. Is ICM really that good? Do you guys use ICM in post-game analysis, or do you actually try to use it while you are playing?

If you use ICM while you are playing, are there tricks for doing the algebra? Within ICM, calculating the probabality of getting first is pretty trivial. But actually figuring out whether a move is plus or minus EV can take a little longer than the time limit per move. Does this just come from experience?

Thanks for the detailed reply.

[lastchance]

Harrington on Hold'em is great for L1-L3 play, especially with 1500 stacks. I like it a lot, teaches you a lot about making moves and postflop play.

With 1500 stacks, you shouldn't approach hands as if they were limit hands, you still have to be considerably tight, but you can look for chances to double up and take a lot of chips with suited connectors and random hands by flopping 2 pair or better.

With SNG Analyzer, you can use ICM while playing, but you really don't need to, because many bubble situations are the same, and the concepts revolve around the same ideas. After a month on this forum analyzing bubble play, a lot of the stuff becomes standard.

Also, it's nowhere near as important with 1500 stacks.