Hand from the 2004 WSOP Main Event

[Tyler Durden]

Second lap of the tourney.

UTG raises to 150, one coldcaller, I have QQ on the button and make it 750, only the original raiser calls.

Flop is King high. UTG moves in for about 9100 into a pot of 1700. I laughed about it in my head for a few seconds and then mucked.

The other day I started thinking, what would I do w/ AA in that hand? Would I call? Probably, but I'd feel very strange calling off my whole stack that quickly. But I can't imagine he'd play anything that beat the nut pair in that fashion. So I'd prob. call but not love it and hate having to make that big a decision that early.


Thoughts?

[MLG]

yup. people have no idea how to play deep stacks.

P.S. I would have laughed out loud.

[DVC Calif]

Tyler -

Why did you reraise so much with position (button)? I think poping it up to t450 or 500 would do the job. I think UTG might have had med pp and was running a stop and go.

In any case, as far as calling the all-in if you had AA, I would go into the tank but eventually call. I don't think UTG s gonna have KK enough times to make me laydown to that flop. And why would KK push with top set in anyway? (I'd make a half pot raise to continue and check raise the turn. Is that a leak?)

[MLG]

he's running a stop n go for like 7 times the size of the pot????? come on. actually there are two possibilities. One (most likely) player is an uber donk who has never played a big tournament, and never played deep stack poker before so he's doing the same thing he would with a stack of 30x. Two (much less likely) opponent has KK and is actually hoping that you have AA/AK and won't be able to get off it. Thats actually not an awful play in this situation the more i think about it. EP raise and a call, the standard button is going to have a pretty small reraising range. hmmmmmmm. I may be talking myself into being weak tight here.

[DVC Calif]

[ QUOTE ]
he's running a stop n go for like 7 times the size of the pot????? come on.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're probably right. My experience is only with low dollar buy-in online tournies. In those, there are plenty of donks in the early levels who push OOP and get called by hands that beat them. (They also suckout runner-runner but that"s another thread).

[MLG]

yes but those donks start with 75-100 BBs, not 200, which makes this mistake twice as big. Not grasping the difference between 75 BBs and 200 BBs is precisely what makes many players playing their first big buy-in event so fishy...that and lack of live experience.

[el Jefe]

[ QUOTE ]
he's running a stop n go for like 7 times the size of the pot????? come on. actually there are two possibilities. One (most likely) player is an uber donk who has never played a big tournament, and never played deep stack poker before so he's doing the same thing he would with a stack of 30x. Two (much less likely) opponent has KK and is actually hoping that you have AA/AK and won't be able to get off it. Thats actually not an awful play in this situation the more i think about it. EP raise and a call, the standard button is going to have a pretty small reraising range. hmmmmmmm. I may be talking myself into being weak tight here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi MLG,

help me understand here. I'm new to MTTs and have won a WSOP ME seat so I need a crash course in deep stack NL.

in the 'most likely' (donk) scenario you're saying villian has AK (or even KQs) and will only get called by a hand that beats him (AA)?

what is villian's proper play with AK here? check-call flop then bet or check-raise turn depending on how safe the turn looks, or a smallish (1/3 to 1/2 pot) bet designed to look like a probe bet?

thanks.

-Jeff

[A_PLUS]

[ QUOTE ]
Second lap of the tourney.

UTG raises to 150, one coldcaller, I have QQ on the button and make it 750, only the original raiser calls.

Flop is King high. UTG moves in for about 9100 into a pot of 1700. I laughed about it in my head for a few seconds and then mucked.

The other day I started thinking, what would I do w/ AA in that hand? Would I call? Probably, but I'd feel very strange calling off my whole stack that quickly. But I can't imagine he'd play anything that beat the nut pair in that fashion. So I'd prob. call but not love it and hate having to make that big a decision that early.


Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, Tom McEvoy has a WSOp bracelet, he must know what he is doing. I wil break down his logic for the unenlightened.

He makes his standard raise with AA. You bet he calls, planning to check fold to a dangerous flop. He must have AA, or else he would have folded preflop.

1700 in the pot King high flop. Maybe two of suit? Maybe a freaky straight draw on the horizon. So, he puts on a 'power play' (see cardplayer for full explanation). Now he wants to bet at least 2x the pot to shut out any draws. He is planning to bet 4000, which he then realizes is 40% of his stack, so he must push.


I can understand where you lesser poker minds may not full grasp the beauty of this play, but it really is textbook.

[billyjex]

i'm calling here w/ AA; i think people are more likely to do this w/ a draw or just one pair. if he had better than one pair i'd expect even a moran who can't play big stacks to play it slower.