How to deal with a young punk....

[mtdoak]

Motor City 5/10

Villian is a WPT Kid, as my friend calls them. Agressive and two card poker players who love to play back with marginal holdings.

I raise with AQo in the CO, a bunch of callers.

Flop comes 878 with two spades.

Checked to me, I bet, WPT kid calls, loose passive calls.

Turn is a brick (a red 4, if i'm not mistaken). Checked to me, I bet. WPT check raises, loose passive folds. I give him a stare down, he's showing all the signs of a weak hand. Looking down, afraid to move. I'm about 80% sure he's making a move on me, so I make it 3. He obviously wasn't very happy with me and fires two red chips into the pot out of anger. River in a red king, and he checks, I check.

He flips over K9s, and I tell him 'I knew you had [censored], i can smell it a mile away'. He takes the pot, sheepishly and looked very intimidated.

Whats my line from here with him? Do you i try to goad him, get him frustrated? Or do i just let him stew?

[The Ocho]

To be fair, you are allowed to check-raise with nothing. And it was you who not only gave him a WPT staredown, but also berated his play. He doesn't really seem like the one who was acting like a punk.

As for what I think you should do: lose gracefully. And try and beat him in the future with good poker and not words. It'll be better for your blood pressure and bankroll.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Motor City 5/10

Villian is a WPT Kid, as my friend calls them. Agressive and two card poker players who love to play back with marginal holdings.

I raise with AQo in the CO, a bunch of callers.

Flop comes 878 with two spades.

Checked to me, I bet, WPT kid calls, loose passive calls.

Turn is a brick (a red 4, if i'm not mistaken). Checked to me, I bet. WPT check raises, loose passive folds. I give him a stare down, he's showing all the signs of a weak hand. Looking down, afraid to move. I'm about 80% sure he's making a move on me, so I make it 3. He obviously wasn't very happy with me and fires two red chips into the pot out of anger. River in a red king, and he checks, I check.

He flips over K9s, and I tell him 'I knew you had [censored], i can smell it a mile away'. He takes the pot, sheepishly and looked very intimidated.

Whats my line from here with him? Do you i try to goad him, get him frustrated? Or do i just let him stew?

[/ QUOTE ]

Try not to tap the glass.

Neat story though.

[Moneyline]

[ QUOTE ]
To be fair, you are allowed to check-raise with nothing. And it was you who not only gave him a WPT staredown, but also berated his play. He doesn't really seem like the one who was acting like a punk.

As for what I think you should do: lose gracefully. And try and beat him in the future with good poker and not words. It'll be better for your blood pressure and bankroll.


[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent Response

You say "nice hand" and encourage him to play more hands the same way.

[morgant]

i think you need to take a look at yourself. the hypocrisy in this post is unbearable.

[augie00]

[ QUOTE ]
the hypocrisy in this post is unbearable.

[/ QUOTE ]

[bodie]

You said his K9 were suited - were they spades?
If so, things look a bit different.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
How to deal with a young punk....

[/ QUOTE ]
I would tell him that I will play K9s and checkraise with nothing if I ****ing feel like it.

[Jakesta]

You're the punk.

[Photoc]

As capone says...kick him in the nuts.

[MikeL05]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How to deal with a young punk....

[/ QUOTE ]
I would tell him that I will play K9s and checkraise with nothing if I ****ing feel like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well put.

[SNOWBALL138]

Try to keep your personal anger to yourself. Making the game an unpleasant experience for other people should never be your goal. Being rude has nothing to do with good poker.

[Jules22]

[ QUOTE ]
To be fair, you are allowed to check-raise with nothing. And it was you who not only gave him a WPT staredown, but also berated his play. He doesn't really seem like the one who was acting like a punk.

As for what I think you should do: lose gracefully. And try and beat him in the future with good poker and not words. It'll be better for your blood pressure and bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

quoted again for emphasis. good good stuff. excellent post.

[Guthrie]

[ QUOTE ]
You're the punk.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Jules22]

if i were the "wpt kid" i woulda been like, "can u keep quiet, im trying to stack your chips over here." that line always makes me laugh

[Blackjack]

Tell him that you'll ID him if he doesn't give you the pot back.

Seriously, just deal with it. You outplayed him and he got lucky.

Blackjack

[Martin Aigner]

POTY

[mtdoak]

A few things that I probably didn't word the best in my original post. First off, I said stare down, it was more of me taking a good hard look at him to try and pick up tells. Second, the intent of this post was not to show how cool i was , but was to ask an honest question. When you have a hand against a player like that (a young player who is much higher on agressiveness/arrogence than skill), is it +EV to try and stir him up and get him to play overly agressive vs you? That was my goal with my comment, not to be an [censored] or to drive him away from the table.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
When you have a hand against a player like that (a young player who is much higher on agressiveness/arrogence than skill), is it +EV to try and stir him up and get him to play overly agressive vs you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know. I don't try to stir people up. I just play poker. My feeling is that trying psych tactics in an obvious way may cause a bad player to leave or create a confrontation.

I am not clear from your discription how your opponent misplayed that hand. I seems like he had as good a read on you as you had on him.

[SNOWBALL138]

[ QUOTE ]
He takes the pot, sheepishly and looked very intimidated.


[/ QUOTE ]

If his error is bluffing too much, intimidating him will make him bluff a little less, viz., bluff with a more correct frequency. If he already bluffs with the correct frequency, then intimidating him will cause him to bluff less than the correct frequency.

What error are you trying to induce? Or are you just trying to prove that your penis is bigger than his?

As for trying to put him on tilt, this might just make you look like a jerk, and cause other people to have an unpleasant experience at the table. This might be worthwhile if you were playing no limit, because if you really did a number on the kid, he might stack off to you.

There is a better reason to not act like a jerk at the table though: human decency.

Anyway, listen; I'm not trying to implicate you or anything. I'm just trying to make a point. I think everyone, new players and experienced players alike, need to embrace the poker boom, which means practicing good table etiquette, whether you are winning or losing.

[TheCroShow]

lol @ u. here is what you do, do not see the showdown with a "wpt kid" unless you have something. best advice i can give you.

[Masquerade]

Sorry but I'm rooting for the kid.

[masse75]

You might as well ask him to whip out his cock and see whose is longer...since you want to turn this into a masculinity contest.

Why berate his play, even if you don't verbally express it? If he's bad, you'll get money back. Berating him puts you on the road to tilt.

[Luv2DriveTT]

You just seriously let me down, that was without a doubt the worst post from someone I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed was a legitimate poster I have read all month.

In all honesty I know the truth hurts but you need to either read Dr's Al's book, spend time in the psychology forums, or quit poker. Its time to start back at square one if you are steaming like that.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[mtdoak]

ARRRGGGGHHHHHH.....I wasn't steaming....i was (now I know) very incorrectly trying to get a player who thinks he's better than he is playing over agressive towards me. It was calculated to try and get him to play back with nothing next time i have a big hand. After the overwhelming response I've received about it, I realize that was probably the dumbest thing I've done at a table so far. Just out of curiousity, what book are you referring to with 'Dr's Al's' book, the Psychology of Poker by Alan Schumacer(sp)? I really wish I could take back this whole post as half the fourms think I'm an idiot punk player now.

[nsj]

A few things....

1. I would think that your staredown/reaction/comment is more likely to get him to play more timidly than usual, which is not what you want.

2. He had 9sKs? Is his check-raise on the turn with a K-high flush draw so bad? I think that play makes A-high fold often enough to make it a good play.

3. He should have bet the river.

4. Just play the bloody game and say nice hand. Table coaching and trash-talking at 5/10 really isn't that far removed from sunglasses and a hoodie at 2/4.

[Felipe]

mtdoak;
So many 2+2er's give harsh replies; there is no shortage here. But what i think they are trying to tell you is not to get emotional about the circumstances, and not get up set at the results. Take the hand in stride, and learn something out of it. I'm not much of a B&M player, however. WHat I am trying to do is provide some insight from MY point of view (however meaningful it may, or may not, be) without slicing your guts and tearing them out your throat! The majority of posters here know that you had a good read on him; they are warning you about possibly negative consequences of your 'socially' aggressive reaction to the winner of the pot. To the other players at the table you were playing at, it may have seemed you whined about losing. They might not even be aware of what happneed; acehigh going against a kinghigh. Why call him a 'young punk' anyways? He may be young, but that isn't much of his fault. Don't let him change his ways, because he is easy to read you want him to ALWAYS be easy to read. If he begins to play correct poker, and only chraise with v.good hands, you've created a -EV situation.

Hope this helps, and hope that all of the posters here have benefited form everybody's contributions to your post.

GL
Felipe

ps - he got lucky, so what? He might not next time, and you'll be there to charge him interest!

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
I really wish I could take back this whole post as half the fourms think I'm an idiot punk player now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a good start. First step is denial, second step is admission. You are now on to your third step in reforming your evil ways /images/graemlins/smile.gif

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif