Check-raising a with a draw..... whoops.....

[durron597]

I really just wanted to take the pot down right here. I didn't expect to get 3-bet; I was just snapping off what seemed like a position bet. Is it even correct to call the reraise? I'm getting like 920:310 immediate odds, which isn't really enough, obviously he's not folding on the turn no matter what so I have implied odds, but I'm not folding on the turn either so that doesn't really help - basically I'm effectively getting 1300:690 with 2 cards to come.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t1435)
MP3 (t645)
CO (t2230)
Button (t1120)
SB (t1295)
Hero (t1235)
UTG (t2015)
UTG+1 (t1455)
MP1 (t2070)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls t30, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls t30, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t120) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t90</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t400</font>, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t710</font>,

[Freudian]

Tainted outs, poor end of the straight draw. I check/fold this.

But I think you might have the pot odds to call after raising here if he has what is most likely, an overpair. I would still fold and save chips.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Tainted outs, poor end of the straight draw. I check/fold this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't like check/folding here, your hand is pretty disguised and thus you have decent implied odds. I don't like my c/r at all anymore though.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

I really don't like check/folding here, your hand is pretty disguised and thus you have decent implied odds. I don't like my c/r at all anymore though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the idea of the c/r is horrendous, though it is too large. Make it more like 250 and it will be easier to fold to a reraise. Altermatively, betting out 90 and folding to a reraise is fine.

As it is, I think it's fairly borderline what you do next. I haven't looked at the odds carefully, but my feeling is you're not getting the right price to compete against a set or a better straight draw and just barely are against pretty much anything else. So, given that, maybe a fold is best, especially since you still have a manageable amount of stack left. (My initial reaction in the poll was to push over, but the more I look at it the less I like it.) (EDIT: Ack. Forgout about the flush draw, and pair and flush draw is an entirely conceivable holding. I think you need to fold.)

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think the idea of the c/r is horrendous, though it is too large. Make it more like 250 and it will be easier to fold to a reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this completely.

[ QUOTE ]
Altermatively, betting out 90 and folding to a reraise is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm starting to think this is the best line. I build the pot a little bet when I do get there and I have a much better idea of buttons hand based on his action (in other words, much better than mine if I get raised). Plus there's plenty of equity in the times I just pick up the pot now.

[durron597]

I'm surprised so many people say to check fold. The stacks are deeper than they are on party. Do those of you who check-fold here do something else if the flop is rainbow?

[Freudian]

Certainly, since it give you up to two more outs. Im still not that fond of spending all that many chips on this hand but if someone gives me the odds to draw I will. I would like it much more with 98s.

[nokona13]

I'm tempted to think here that our implied odds are great. I've found most people assume you're after the flush with a two-flush on board when you check call. That means if he holds a made hand and we hit our six clean outs, we're gonna do really well. I think I'd check call here and expect to get much better than 4:1 back on my t90 call if I hit the river.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I would like it much more with 98s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Are you that certain that the button has a pair on the board that our overs count as outs? Do you think the button has his own 98?

I agree that having 98 here is better than having 45, but I wouldn't say much.

[adanthar]

I think it's 'much'. You've got, say, seven clean outs on average; 98 would add at least...call it 3, maybe four. That counts as 'much', IMO.

Here, I'd check/call a street and see what hit the turn.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's 'much'. You've got, say, seven clean outs on average; 98 would add at least...call it 3, maybe four. That counts as 'much', IMO.

Here, I'd check/call a street and see what hit the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing I think I missed originally is that by check raising I'm shutting out the other two players in the hand. In one sense this might be good because it might increase the # of clean outs - would the button call that large c/r with a flush draw? Maybe pair + flush draw, but even that is pushing it.

But I think in this case it's probably best to try to keep my opponents in the hand to keep the pot larger the times I do hit.

[Newt_Buggs]

I like check calling then playing off of the turn. If it ends up HU and something like a Q comes on the turn then I will usually bet out trying to steal. If a blank hits, then I'm probably checking the turn again. If he checks behind, then I bet the river most of the time whether I hit my draw or not.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I like check calling then playing off of the turn. If it ends up HU and something like a Q comes on the turn then I will usually bet out trying to steal. If a blank hits, then I'm probably checking the turn again. If he checks behind, then I bet the river most of the time whether I hit my draw or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't a bad way to play it against a lot of opponents. I think this hand is a lot deeper than most are giving it credit for.

[lastchance]

Check-call is clearly correct after thinking about this situation and listening to people post. I need to play this spot better myself.

[durron597]

I really got lucky here. After he pops me back on the flop my on-the-fly math said that I really should have called.

Fortunately, this is how the hand turned out:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t1435)
MP3 (t645)
CO (t2230)
Button (t1120)
SB (t1295)
Hero (t1235)
UTG (t2015)
UTG+1 (t1455)
MP1 (t2070)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls t30, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls t30, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t120) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t90</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t400</font>, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t710</font>, Hero calls t310.

Turn: (t1540) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t380 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls t380.

River: (t2300) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t2300

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has 5h 4h (straight, nine high).
Button has 6h 7h (two pair, sevens and sixes).
Outcome: Hero wins t2300. </font>