weak starting hand?

[djr]

7 Card Stud High ($0.50/$1.00), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.25 (hand converter (http://www.geocities.com/greenage22/7StudConverter.hta.txt))

3rd Street - (0.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx J/images/graemlins/spade.gif___calls
Hero: K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif___brings-in
Seat 6: xx xx 6/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds

4th Street - (2.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___checks
Hero: K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks
Seat 5: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks
Seat 6: xx xx 6/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks

5th Street - (1.30 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___checks
Hero: K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif___checks
Seat 5: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif___checks
Seat 6: xx xx 6/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif___checks

6th Street - (1.30 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks___calls
Hero: K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 6/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___folds

River - (4.30 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif xx___checks___calls
Hero: K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif xx___bets

Total pot: (7.30 BB)

ok, I really don't like hands like this. I'm always uncertain what to do past 3rd unless I spike a pair. I think my dislike of the starting hand made me play this poorly. My thoughts:
3rd, My striaght outs are live, diamonds are live 3 big cards and with a 4 behind me I should get to see 4th cheap.

4th, no one caught anything they could like. I checked mainly because I was paying more attention to my cards than theirs and I was first to act. Who bets here?

5th, again apparent junk for everyone. Again I check. The pot is so small, do I really want to risk a bluff?

6th, easy bet

7th, don't think kings are gonna win so I decided to check/call, but now I'm thinking folding would have worked too given how small the pot was.

[Griff]

<font color="blue">7th, don't think kings are gonna win so I decided to check/call, but now I'm thinking folding would have worked too given how small the pot was.</font>

Pretty easy fold here IMO.

[dandy_don]

[ QUOTE ]
3rd Street - (0.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx J___calls
Hero: K A J___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 4___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 3___brings-in
Seat 6: xx xx 6___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 8___folds


[/ QUOTE ]

I play it the same for only the bring-in. Obviously, no one believes their hand is supreme and you have 2 fully live overcards to any of the other exposed door cards.

[ QUOTE ]
6th Street - (1.30 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx J 5 4 A___checks___calls
Hero: K A J 8 7 K___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 3 2 9 8___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 6 4 2 9___folds


[/ QUOTE ]

The call by Seat 1 could be J's or a middle pair, but at this point I'm guessing that he has a gut shot draw. Somehow, you have to figure a way to get at least Seat 1 and hopefully one other to fold at this point. He pretty much tells you he doesn't have the A's, but you have certainly told everyone you have K's, maybe K's up.

[ QUOTE ]
River - (4.30 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx J 5 4 A xx___checks___calls
Hero: K A J 8 7 K 3___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 3 2 9 8 xx___bets


[/ QUOTE ]

Not knowing anything about Seat 5, I'm guessing he is value betting with 2 small pair to see if you hit 2 pair, but you have a borderline call for one bet (small pot). I can't imagine he's trying to bluff 2 people off of the pot on 7th with that junk in low limit.

Seat 1 didn't improve his J's.

[djr]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6th Street - (1.30 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx J 5 4 A___checks___calls
Hero: K A J 8 7 K___bets
Seat 5: xx xx 3 2 9 8___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 6 4 2 9___folds



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The call by Seat 1 could be J's or a middle pair, but at this point I'm guessing that he has a gut shot draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

which gut shot are you putting him on? wheel or broadway?

[dandy_don]

[ QUOTE ]
which gut shot are you putting him on? wheel or broadway?

[/ QUOTE ]

On 6th, my gut tells me a wheel with the A,4,5 in the door, but either way it's the same play; you've got to get him to go away.

As I discussed later on 7th street, I changed my opinion of Seat 1 to be J's because of the call on 7th. The call actually seems to imply J's up, because had he hit either straight, he should have been raising. Had he missed the straight or only had J's, he should have folded.

[Bartholow]

I'd call the river if the other guy had folded, but I wouldn't overcall. I don't think it is that close, unless these dudes can't surmise that you are likely to have kings (in which case it is close but maybe still a fold).

[bholdr]

With a microscopic ante like that, you don't need to play hands like this at all- sit back and wait for big pairs, etc. But, this could conceivably fall under the 'play more hands against weak players' category- with passive/weak opponents like that, you can make marginal hands like this profitable if you play well on later streets. now about that...

If they wanna let you draw for free, take advantage. I think that the bet with the Ks on sixth was appropriate, but i don't know if i'd call the river bet- since you've basicly given away your hand on sixth and there are so many players still in, it's a good bet that someone has two pair- also, the pot is small enough that folding the best hand isn't the disasater that it normally is.

I may be inclined to raise third with a hand like that and the board looking the way it does- three high unsuited cards are going to do better HU, hopefully against a small pair (tens or something like that would be best)

i think your thought process on this hand is good.

[frappeboy]

You are probably better off folding unless your opponents are very weak and rarely raise on 3rd street. This hand is definitely playable in late position for a bring-in, but I feel you need to be an expert player to play this for profit from an early position with this structure.

Just my 2 cents.

[djr]

I agree, if I had this hand in early position it would go right into the muck as I am clearly no expert

[TheShootah]

I think here it should be mucked, since two others have already called, but I think if you can put in the first raise and try to get it heads up this hand is ok. Also, in this case, the ante is quite small, so you may just want to toss this anyways.

[Andy B]

I usually limp in with this dog too, but I'd be more enthusiastic about it if the ante were higher and/or the bring-in lower.

I play it the same through sixth street. On the river, it's very unlikely that the bettor is bluffing. If he were going to bluff, he probably would have tried it before the river. He's not playing his strong board--that's for sure. The caller is likely to have you beaten as well. I think this is a clear fold.

[djr]

Bettor showed down Q high...he was bluffing. Caller however hit the wheel on the river to win.

Thanks for the analysis guys

[dandy_don]

[ QUOTE ]
Bettor showed down Q high...he was bluffing. Caller however hit the wheel on the river to win.

[/ QUOTE ]

That had to be a soft game for a Q-high to believe he could run 2 others off their hands on 7th after playing weak throughout the hand and not having anything scary in the door, and Seat 1 not raising on 7th with a straight.

Good post.