Standard or weak?

[AlmightyJay]

Feels standard, I just want to make sure. MP3 is extremely loose and very donkish. He's around 85% VPIP, will call down with any pair, will raise randomly and for no apparent reason, and loves to bluff at scare cards. I've taken quite a bit of money from him so far. SB is a bit on the tight/passive side. The other two I don't really know.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

<font color="blue">Two overcards and a backdoor flush draw. I doubt I have the best hand, but a continuation bet might get rid of a few people.</font>

Turn: (7.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, <font color="red">Hero folds...</font>

<font color="blue">Ugh, quite possibly the worst card I could see. Flush possibility is gone, and with five players, the chances that one of them has an A is high. I check/fold. Should this be a bet/fold? Betting seems pointless.</font>

[Sinnister]

Neither standard nor weak. Too strong bro, You shouldnt bet overcards into such a huge field. Check and call 1 bet to peel 1 off and fold the turn if UI.

[droolie]

I'm taking the free look at the turn against a field of 5. Your hand has no showdown power and it's highly likely you are behind and needing to improve. I bet here only folds hands that cannot beat you.

Turn is standard. Nice.

[AlmightyJay]

I disagree, especially since my standard play is to lead out after raising preflop. If I always check everytime I miss and always bet only when I have a hand, I'll be far too predictable and easy to bluff.

I think the flop bet is fine, it's the turn fold I'm wondering about.

[Sinnister]

Dude if u bet everytime u raise preflop no matter how many you are giving too much money away. especially at low limits u are definately getting calls, question is will u get raised.

[Nikademus]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree, especially since my standard play is to lead out after raising preflop. If I always check everytime I miss and always bet only when I have a hand, I'll be far too predictable and easy to bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]
Normally I'd agree with you, but not at this low-level. With 5 opponents, one of them *has* the ace. No sense bluffing here.

[AlmightyJay]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude if u bet everytime u raise preflop no matter how many you are giving too much money away. especially at low limits u are definately getting calls, question is will u get raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't bet everytime I raise preflop. It's more like 75-80% of the time.

[droolie]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree, especially since my standard play is to lead out after raising preflop. If I always check everytime I miss and always bet only when I have a hand, I'll be far too predictable and easy to bluff.

I think the flop bet is fine, it's the turn fold I'm wondering about.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's bad poker BTW. Betting overcards on the flop is very tricky. You cannot do the same thing every time. You simply need to pick your spots when to make a continuation bet. In this case you might have the best hand but it's doubtfull that you do. Betting isn't terrible but you need to see that it isn't the only play here.

You raise pf because you have a huge equity edge. Everything changes on the flop. Often this edge is completely gone on the flop and you are looking at trash. If you feel compelled to bet every time you raised to represent the big PP you will cost yourself a ton of money in the longrun. In this case you are facing four other players with one small bet in a raised pot. They are all correct to call with just about anything. Keep in mind that they will assume you have overcards no matter how hard you try to represent AA. They aren't bold enough to raise you but they are all going to call you to the river if they have just about any showdown worthy hand or draw.

I will almost always fire with overcards if I'm HU or against 2 opponents. 3 and I mix it up depending on board texture and position. Against 4 players I'm almost always checking. The chances that someone has you beat are very strong and you will need to improve to win. Keep in mind also that besides your backdoor flush (1.5 outs) you are drawing to TOP PAIR. This is not exactly a powerhouse. It is a weak draw and you might be reverse dominated or facing redraws up the wazoo.

[Sinnister]

Into a field that big still financial suicide imho.

[Rev. Good Will]

standard stuff, I like.

on the flop I would be tempted to take a free card though.

[AlmightyJay]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree, especially since my standard play is to lead out after raising preflop. If I always check everytime I miss and always bet only when I have a hand, I'll be far too predictable and easy to bluff.

I think the flop bet is fine, it's the turn fold I'm wondering about.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's bad poker BTW. Betting overcards on the flop is very tricky. You cannot do the same thing every time. You simply need to pick your spots when to make a continuation bet. In this case you might have the best hand but it's doubtfull that you do. Betting isn't terrible but you need to see that it isn't the only play here.

You raise pf because you have a huge equity edge. Everything changes on the flop. Often this edge is completely gone on the flop and you are looking at trash. If you feel compelled to bet every time you raised to represent the big PP you will cost yourself a ton of money in the longrun. In this case you are facing four other players with one small bet in a raised pot. They are all correct to call with just about anything. Keep in mind that they will assume you have overcards no matter how hard you try to represent AA. They aren't bold enough to raise you but they are all going to call you to the river if they have just about any showdown worthy hand or draw.

I will almost always fire with overcards if I'm HU or against 2 opponents. 3 and I mix it up depending on board texture and position. Against 4 players I'm almost always checking. The chances that someone has you beat are very strong and you will need to improve to win. Keep in mind also that besides your backdoor flush (1.5 outs) you are drawing to TOP PAIR. This is not exactly a powerhouse. It is a weak draw and you might be reverse dominated or facing redraws up the wazoo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, I've seen the light. This is probably a big leak. I'll work hard to plug it in the future.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
Neither standard nor weak. Too strong bro, You shouldnt bet overcards into such a huge field. Check and call 1 bet to peel 1 off and fold the turn if UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

With one player behind you, a bet here isn't so terrible. I'm caught in between because I would really like to have position on the turn to take my free card (especially if the continuation bet encourages everyone to check to me again on the turn), but I would also really like to see the turn cheaply. I don't think either option is particularly bad.

With more than one player behind you, I think it's an easy check-call, and if you already have the button, it's an easy check.

[Vote4Pedro]

the flop bet isnt THAT bad, however, check/calling is a superior play considering the size of the field on a drawy board. As for the turn, its the easiest fold ive ever seen...whats the problem?

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
As for the turn, its the easiest fold ive ever seen...whats the problem?

[/ QUOTE ] Ditto.

[NateDog]

I believe your flop bet is what is commonly reffered to as a 'donk bet'.

Not that you're a donk, I'm just sayin . . .

[Vote4Pedro]

You're obviously confused, a "donk" bet is when someone leads into the preflop raiser...this is known as a "continuation" bet