wtf?????

[johnnybeef]

level 5....75/150????? when did this happen?

[iMsoLucky0]

OMFG, you have got to be kidding me. This fuggin sucks.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
OMFG, you have got to be kidding me. This fuggin sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

i kinda like it actually (except it will hurt the ole hourly rate)

[iMsoLucky0]

Per their website:

Level Limits

1) $ 15/30
2) $ 30/60
3) $ 50/100
4) $ 100/200
5) $ 150/300
6) $ 200/400
7) $ 300/600
8) $ 400/800
9) $ 500/1000
10) $ 600/1200

What does this mean? 300 600 at level 7 ?!?! No 25 50? no 10 15? Jeez........

[zipppy]

Hmm...I don't know about this...anyone played enough to calculate a difference in average tourney length? Good thing I'm looking to increase the # of tables I play...

[iMsoLucky0]

Actually it looks like their site is wrong and that isn't the actual blind structire. Hmmm.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
Per their website:

Level Limits

1) $ 15/30
2) $ 30/60
3) $ 50/100
4) $ 100/200
5) $ 150/300
6) $ 200/400
7) $ 300/600
8) $ 400/800
9) $ 500/1000
10) $ 600/1200

What does this mean? 300 600 at level 7 ?!?! No 25 50? no 10 15? Jeez........

[/ QUOTE ]

thats not how they are currently

[zipppy]

but aren't those levels and not blinds?

[curtains]

Unbelievable are they insane???

[durron597]

Those appear to be stakes and not limits... I think. So divide everything by two for blinds.

[zipppy]

if those are levels, then wouldn't the blinds be:
10/15
15/30
25/50
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
200/400
250/500
300/600

This would be a slower structure than was previously in place.

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
Per their website:

Level Limits

1) $ 15/30
2) $ 30/60
3) $ 50/100
4) $ 100/200
5) $ 150/300
6) $ 200/400
7) $ 300/600
8) $ 400/800
9) $ 500/1000
10) $ 600/1200

What does this mean? 300 600 at level 7 ?!?! No 25 50? no 10 15? Jeez........

[/ QUOTE ]

Party always talks like these tournaments are Limit, not NL. These are the limits for a Limit HE tournament. For NL, just ignore the bigger number and use the smaller number as the BB.

[zipppy]

Maybe Aleo will write a new and improved guide /images/graemlins/smile.gif. (though I doubt he'd need to)

[iMsoLucky0]

iMsoDumb..... damn oklahoma school systems.

[curtains]

Still I believe this 75-150 round is a huge outrage. Probably lowers hourly rate by like 5-10%? Don't they know I've got video games to buy, PartyPoker is so thoughtless towards my needs.

[45suited]

Checking through games in progress, the only level that's changed is level 5 for NL SNG's anyway.

But I don't like this... change is bad! /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[iMsoLucky0]

[ QUOTE ]
But I don't like this... change is bad!

[/ QUOTE ]

Change is bad! This really worries me. I mean, if they coan just add in another level, what if they decided to do something real drastic that could completely change them? I don't like it one bit.

[adanthar]

Hey, did anyone say 'play postflop'? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

But yeah, this sucks. There aren't really enough chips in play for the slower structure.

[curtains]

Please lord whoever figures it out first, let us know what the new avg time is for sit and gos!!

[zipppy]

It surprises me that they would do this. It cannot help them to make more money, unless they feel more people will play because of the slower blinds. Though everyone's used to what's currently in place, it seems that adding a level would be more in the interest of solid players then in the interest of Partypoker.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]

Please lord whoever figures it out first, let us know what the new avg time is for sit and gos!!

[/ QUOTE ]

hold on, ive got an 8 table session wrapping up right now, ill fill everyone in when im done

[curtains]

I sent Party an email, their structure is changing to the following effective one week from now:

Level 1 - Blinds 5-10
Level 2 - Blinds 10-15
Level 3 - Blinds 10-20
Level 4 - Blinds 15-30
Level 5 - Blinds 20-40
Level 5 - Blinds 25-50
Level 6 - Blinds 50-75
Level 7 - Blinds 50-100
Level 8 - Blinds 75-150
Level 9 - Blinds 100-200
Level 10 - Blinds 150-300
Level 11 - Blinds 200-400
Level 12 - Blinds 250-500
Level 13 - Blinds 300-600

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, did anyone say 'play postflop'? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

But yeah, this sucks. There aren't really enough chips in play for the slower structure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't follow...are you implying that there are enough chips for the faster structure? It seems that whether it's one extra level or five extra levels, slowing down the game should only help better players.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]

I sent Party an email, their structure is changing to the following effective one week from now:

Level 1 - Blinds 5-10
Level 2 - Blinds 10-15
Level 3 - Blinds 10-20
Level 4 - Blinds 15-30
Level 5 - Blinds 20-40
Level 5 - Blinds 25-50
Level 6 - Blinds 50-75
Level 7 - Blinds 50-100
Level 8 - Blinds 75-150
Level 9 - Blinds 100-200
Level 10 - Blinds 150-300
Level 11 - Blinds 200-400
Level 12 - Blinds 250-500
Level 13 - Blinds 300-600

[/ QUOTE ]

please tell me you are joking

[zipppy]

lol. Now THAT would suck for the hourly rate. (but maybe be ridiculously good for variance/ITM/roi?)

[adanthar]

It'll still be push or fold except in some weird circumstances, but now it'll just take longer. If Party wanted to add a non push or fold element to the game, they should've added more chips.

[curtains]

lol of course I'm joking, Im a huge [censored]. This 75-150 round isn't the armageddon, we just have to adjust a tiny bit and probably expect slightly lower $/hour rates. I believe extra play should always help good players slightly but it probably won't make very much of a difference towards one's ROI, thus the extra time it takes to play will be more detrimental than whatever gain we receive from the extra 10 hands of play.

[sergsz]

I really hope this is a joke...

[microbet]

ROI does not buy
$/hr = purchasing power

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
ROI does not buy
$/hr = purchasing power

[/ QUOTE ]

true, and words to live by.

[iMsoLucky0]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey, did anyone say 'play postflop'? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

But yeah, this sucks. There aren't really enough chips in play for the slower structure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't follow...are you implying that there are enough chips for the faster structure? It seems that whether it's one extra level or five extra levels, slowing down the game should only help better players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Slowing down the game does and doesn't help better players. Do you see why? It is because while it may increase the chances of the better player winning, it will also increase the time required to win. Depending on the balance here, this could lead to a decreased $/hr figure or a higher one.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
lol of course I'm joking, Im a huge [censored]. This 75-150 round isn't the armageddon, we just have to adjust a tiny bit and probably expect slightly lower $/hour rates. I believe extra play should always help good players slightly but it probably won't make very much of a difference towards one's ROI, thus the extra time it takes to play will be more detrimental than whatever gain we receive from the extra 10 hands of play.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's really not an extra ten hands. It would be an extra ten hands if they took away the blinds completely for Level 5, and then added them back in for Level 6.

I'm guessing this will add, on average, 5 - 6 hands to the average tournament.

[adanthar]

From three months ago:

[ QUOTE ]
It seems that 2+2 has developed into a community of people that basically feed off of the fish at exactly Party (and, to a lesser extent, Stars) 24/7. Stars has more postflop play to start with but during and after the middle stages of its MTT's it's even more all in/fold than Party is. This makes almost all of us very vulnerable to anything that changes conditions. Look how many threads there are about the 10+1 games getting marginally tighter - should that even matter, given a moronically incompetent bot can apparently beat the 20's for over 10%?

Aside from the regular $200 posters here, I know that eastbay, Irieguy, lorinda and I, along with a few others, are all capable of beating these games at any level. I don't put myself in first place from that group, but I feel I'm one of the better players here, and I just realized I'm scared of a goddamn 13 BB AJo hand.

That's ridiculous and it's spawned by the ridiculousness of Party's structure and horrible playerbase. This can't last. It might be bots, it might be the end of the poker boom, it might be fish deciding that Party sucks and (insert site here) has been on TV more...I don't know but all in or fold specialists aren't the future of this game. That's too easy for a bot to do.

Right now, I'm playing on Full Tilt. Their SNG's and multis take forever but I can crush them and they allow me to play postflop. When that nice rakeback/bonus runs out I may move somewhere else or I may not. All I know is I'm not coming back to Party full time until my game improves enough to sit in at a $200, raise that AJo and know what I'm doing with it no matter what the opponent or flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
lol. Now THAT would suck for the hourly rate. (but maybe be ridiculously good for variance/ITM/roi?)

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] THAT IF I WANTED GOOD VARIANCE/ITM/ROI I'D [censored] PLAY AT STARS!!!!

caps off.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
lol of course I'm joking, Im a huge [censored]. This 75-150 round isn't the armageddon, we just have to adjust a tiny bit and probably expect slightly lower $/hour rates. I believe extra play should always help good players slightly but it probably won't make very much of a difference towards one's ROI, thus the extra time it takes to play will be more detrimental than whatever gain we receive from the extra 10 hands of play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dammit Curtains! You had me on the ledge when I read your first email about their new blind structure. That is just wrong dude... Good one though... Now I don't feel so bad about the change in level 5.

[Slim Pickens]

I wonder what will happen when Empire players get to level 5? Do I still have to pay higher blinds? Man, that would suck.

From Empire:
[ QUOTE ]
Level Limits:
1) $ 15/30
2) $ 30/60
3) $ 50/100
4) $ 100/200
5) $ 200/400
6) $ 300/600
7) $ 400/800
8) $ 500/1000
9) $ 600/1200

[/ QUOTE ]

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lol. Now THAT would suck for the hourly rate. (but maybe be ridiculously good for variance/ITM/roi?)

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] THAT IF I WANTED GOOD VARIANCE/ITM/ROI I'D [censored] PLAY AT STARS!!!!

caps off.

[/ QUOTE ]

uhh...me too. caps on?

[stupidsucker]

Adapt and overcome.

If you can't handle a change like this then you probably can't handle a 45 buy in drop in your BR playing good poker either.

I know everyone is just being dramatic, and most people here will be fine, but stop teh drama prz. Play poker.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
Adapt and overcome.

If you can't handle a change like this then you probably can't handle a 45 buy in drop in your BR playing good poker either.

I know everyone is just being dramatic, and most people here will be fine, but stop teh drama prz. Play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a reason I moved over the the SNGs. Being good postflop was not one of them.

[hardinda]

I'd like to know what grounds ppl are using to say that there $/hour rate will drop. A good players ROI should go up and might even cause $/hour to go up.

[lawrence]

This is where someone comes in and tells me it's all a big joke, and someone is just messing with me.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to know what grounds ppl are using to say that there $/hour rate will drop. A good players ROI should go up and might even cause $/hour to go up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing since the level they added is actually going to be close to where the bubble is anyway, both time and ROI will change very little. I don't see my ROI changing much because I suck at poker, but hr/tourney should go up slightly.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
This is where someone comes in and tells me it's all a big joke, and someone is just messing with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you dont believe me.....play one

[lawrence]

Doesn't Party realize this lowers their hourly rate?

Good thing I've been learning to play 6 max NL, I was pretty much done with SNGs and going to cash games even before this.

[curtains]

I'm bad at multiplying by 150 while 8 tabling....I guess I'll get used to it though /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[utmt40]

POOP!

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
Adapt and overcome.

If you can't handle a change like this then you probably can't handle a 45 buy in drop in your BR playing good poker either.

I know everyone is just being dramatic, and most people here will be fine, but stop teh drama prz. Play poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which post were you replying to? I didn't realize I was being dramatic, because I'm not too concerned with this change.

[lawrence]

Now I'm even more convinced that there is more money to be made at 6 max cash games then SNGs.

[Matt R.]

I actually really like the change, and I'm not convinced it's going to reduce hourly rate. Am I the only one that hated the 50/100 to 100/200 jump in blinds -- going from comfortable in chips to insta-shortstack in one hand? Granted, it happened to everyone at the table and most of us here are better equipped to deal with it, but certainly it added a lot of "luck" to the game -- something the better players at the table are trying to minimize. The blinds still go up really quickly, so I doubt it will add that much time per game (especially since the hands it will add will still be push/fold preflop hands), and I think it should increase ROI slightly, but noticeably, for the stronger players.

[Freudian]

I don't really mind that much. I usually have less than 1500 chips at the end of level 4 anyway. Much rather this than adding a new 5/10 level 1.

[TheNoodleMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that hated the 50/100 to 100/200 jump in blinds -- going from comfortable in chips to insta-shortstack in one hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
you are not alone. I suspect that this is what causes a lot of my 5th and 6th places. I hope the new 75/150 blind level allows me to turn some more of those into ITM finishes.

[Freudian]

Damnit. My first hand of 75/150 and I push 88 into BBs 99. I hate these new blinds!

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
It surprises me that they would do this. It cannot help them to make more money, unless they feel more people will play because of the slower blinds. Though everyone's used to what's currently in place, it seems that adding a level would be more in the interest of solid players then in the interest of Partypoker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe they're trying to get all us weisenheimer multi-tablers to play some more tables to make up the difference.

Hey, it's no crazy than your average conspiracy theory.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
Damnit. My first hand of 75/150 and I push 88 into BBs 99. I hate these new blinds!

[/ QUOTE ]

My first hand, I'm the BB with QQ and 1500, a guy makes a 4 handed limp on the button, I push and he instacalls A3s.

I love these new blinds.

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm bad at multiplying by 150 while 8 tabling....I guess I'll get used to it though /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

HA! That is the first thing I noticed also. I need to make a post it with the 150 mulitiplication table on it.

My ITM in my first set with the new structure was 50%, so I think the change is good.

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that hated the 50/100 to 100/200 jump in blinds?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I hated that too. I think that this change is not so bad. I am glad they added this rather than another pre-50/100 level.

[Freudian]

The main difference is in HU play I suspect. Both players are likely to have more than 10xBB and thus you get some more postflop play in HU.

[Bigwig]

This applies to those who play $50s and above. After doing some intuitive figuring, I think that each tourney will last about 5 or so hands longer. That's about 5 minutes. For a 15% ROI player at the $50s, the change in hourly rate would be something like a 10% drop.

In order to compensate, your ROI would have to increase ~1.67%. Do you think that's likely with one extra blind level?

[Skipbidder]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Damnit. My first hand of 75/150 and I push 88 into BBs 99. I hate these new blinds!

[/ QUOTE ]

My first hand, I'm the BB with QQ and 1500, a guy makes a 4 handed limp on the button, I push and he instacalls A3s.

I love these new blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course these both probably go the same way at the higher limit too.

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
This applies to those who play $50s and above. After doing some intuitive figuring, I think that each tourney will last about 5 or so hands longer. That's about 5 minutes. For a 15% ROI player at the $50s, the change in hourly rate would be something like a 10% drop.

In order to compensate, your ROI would have to increase ~1.67%. Do you think that's likely with one extra blind level?

[/ QUOTE ]

How much does your hourly rate drop if your ROI is 210%?

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
My first hand, I'm the BB with QQ and 1500, a guy makes a 4 handed limp on the button, I push and he instacalls A3s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Standard call /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[yid3655]

Sorry for being an idiot, ive not been around last few days what site does this concernt? Party?

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This applies to those who play $50s and above. After doing some intuitive figuring, I think that each tourney will last about 5 or so hands longer. That's about 5 minutes. For a 15% ROI player at the $50s, the change in hourly rate would be something like a 10% drop.

In order to compensate, your ROI would have to increase ~1.67%. Do you think that's likely with one extra blind level?

[/ QUOTE ]

How much does your hourly rate drop if your ROI is 210%?

[/ QUOTE ]

10%, JOPKE.

[TexInAtl]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This applies to those who play $50s and above. After doing some intuitive figuring, I think that each tourney will last about 5 or so hands longer. That's about 5 minutes. For a 15% ROI player at the $50s, the change in hourly rate would be something like a 10% drop.

In order to compensate, your ROI would have to increase ~1.67%. Do you think that's likely with one extra blind level?

[/ QUOTE ]

How much does your hourly rate drop if your ROI is 210%?

[/ QUOTE ]

If your ROI is 210%, why the hell are you worried about hourly rate at all?

[FieryJustice]

From the 9 games I played today, the only major difference is that when you get hu, the blinds are lower...but still big enough to where you have to push. I had 44% roi in my 9 games, so I think I like it, even though my mind tells me it is bad.

[ilya]

woohooo! I feel like I've graduated from kindergarten and been accepted into the 1st grade.

seriously? I don't mind. This should bump ITM and/or ROI a bit for me, and I'm willing to put in a couple extra hours a week if it means my swings aren't quite as irritating. Stress reduction is worth $$.

more work for Eastbay though!

[zipppy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This applies to those who play $50s and above. After doing some intuitive figuring, I think that each tourney will last about 5 or so hands longer. That's about 5 minutes. For a 15% ROI player at the $50s, the change in hourly rate would be something like a 10% drop.

In order to compensate, your ROI would have to increase ~1.67%. Do you think that's likely with one extra blind level?

[/ QUOTE ]

How much does your hourly rate drop if your ROI is 210%?

[/ QUOTE ]

If your ROI is 210%, why the hell are you worried about hourly rate at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
From three months ago:

[ QUOTE ]
It seems that 2+2 has developed into a community of people that basically feed off of the fish at exactly Party (and, to a lesser extent, Stars) 24/7. Stars has more postflop play to start with but during and after the middle stages of its MTT's it's even more all in/fold than Party is. This makes almost all of us very vulnerable to anything that changes conditions. Look how many threads there are about the 10+1 games getting marginally tighter - should that even matter, given a moronically incompetent bot can apparently beat the 20's for over 10%?

Aside from the regular $200 posters here, I know that eastbay, Irieguy, lorinda and I, along with a few others, are all capable of beating these games at any level. I don't put myself in first place from that group, but I feel I'm one of the better players here, and I just realized I'm scared of a goddamn 13 BB AJo hand.

That's ridiculous and it's spawned by the ridiculousness of Party's structure and horrible playerbase. This can't last. It might be bots, it might be the end of the poker boom, it might be fish deciding that Party sucks and (insert site here) has been on TV more...I don't know but all in or fold specialists aren't the future of this game. That's too easy for a bot to do.

Right now, I'm playing on Full Tilt. Their SNG's and multis take forever but I can crush them and they allow me to play postflop. When that nice rakeback/bonus runs out I may move somewhere else or I may not. All I know is I'm not coming back to Party full time until my game improves enough to sit in at a $200, raise that AJo and know what I'm doing with it no matter what the opponent or flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. There are so many posts like this in the Poker Theory forum. Any game that allows the pros to crush the fish will not survive. All games that keep the fish alive will. End of story. These comments are akin to a bad beat post.

[stupidsucker]

I use flat mode, and I always just click reply on the last post.

People using flat compared to people using threaded view often seems to create a tiny bit of confusion that people often give no thought to.

In flat mode all posts are in cronological order only. In threaded they can jump all over the place.

I was responding to people in general not any specific person. I think I am among the majority of people who post this way. People who use threaded mode take posts personaly just because it was their thread that happened to be above ours.

In this particular case I responded directly to your post, and it appears below you in threaded mode. In flat mode this post wont be directly below you.

I hope my off topic banter has helped some people understand the simple difference. Especially the threaded mode viewers that are cramping my flat mode style.

[gumpzilla]

However, even in flat mode you can figure out which post is being responded to, simply by clicking the link in the [Re:] box in the subject line. So it's still nice to actually respond directly to whichever post you want to respond to.

[zipppy]

I view posts in flat mode as well. I also pay attention to who people reply to.

[pergesu]

Dude I love this new blind level. I've only gotten in about 20 games with it so far, but my nick should be changed to pwnmasta perg. Poker is easy.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Dude I love this new blind level. I've only gotten in about 20 games with it so far, but my nick should be changed to pwnmasta perg. Poker is easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mind it either. I think it actually helps. Furthermore, I really don't think it adds that much more time. Maybe Party has done something right /images/graemlins/ooo.gif /images/graemlins/blush.gif /images/graemlins/smirk.gif /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Karak567]

I'm on life tilt or I would try it.

1500 dollars lost in 2 days does that to you.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
I use flat mode, and I always just click reply on the last post.

People using flat compared to people using threaded view often seems to create a tiny bit of confusion that people often give no thought to.

In flat mode all posts are in cronological order only. In threaded they can jump all over the place.

I was responding to people in general not any specific person. I think I am among the majority of people who post this way. People who use threaded mode take posts personaly just because it was their thread that happened to be above ours.

In this particular case I responded directly to your post, and it appears below you in threaded mode. In flat mode this post wont be directly below you.

I hope my off topic banter has helped some people understand the simple difference. Especially the threaded mode viewers that are cramping my flat mode style.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like threaded mode. Is there a way I can permanently set it that way?

[stupidsucker]

[ QUOTE ]
I like threaded mode. Is there a way I can permanently set it that way?


[/ QUOTE ]

Click your home page at the top of this page and go to display preferences. I believe it is there.

Sorry for the drama I caused, I meant no harm. I was trying to make light of a common missunderstanding, but all I did was cause more missunderstanding.

My sincere public apologies for my abrasive humor.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm on life tilt or I would try it.

1500 dollars lost in 2 days does that to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your life is beautiful, I was down 1500 about an hour after I woke up /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
From three months ago:

It seems that 2+2 has developed into a community of people that basically feed off of the fish at exactly Party...I don't know but all in or fold specialists aren't the future of this game. That's too easy for a bot to do.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll start by quoting Dan Harrington in HOH Vol. 2:

Be advised that playing correctly around inflection points is the most important single skill of no limit hold 'em tournaments.

The italics are his.

I recently played in a live multi-table tournament where the blind structure was brutal and I was amazed throughout the tourney, and particularly at the final table, that people did not understand how to play a small stack (in relation to the blinds). At the final table I watched in amazement as the guy to my left, UTG+1, limped for 1/4 of his stack, called a min-raise for another 1/4 of his stack and then check/folded on the flop. There are many other examples I can remember both throughout the tourney and even at the final table shorthanded where people weren't pushing enough or were calling when they should have been thinking push or fold. I think one of my biggest advantages at this tourney was my experience playing SnG's. So, rather than think the quick end of the SnG and push or fold play is robotic and worthless, I think it is actually quite worthwhile and valuable to have in your arsenal.

[Freudian]

After playing some 10-15 tournaments there is definately a difference when ITM. Blinds are lower and you have to restrain yourself a bit if you don't want to overbet hands to steal.

That isn't a big problem unless you are playing against donks who turn into calling stations even when you raise preflop. It is very hard to put them on hands when they just call call call.

[Karak567]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm on life tilt or I would try it.

1500 dollars lost in 2 days does that to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your life is beautiful, I was down 1500 about an hour after I woke up /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but you play higher buy-ins! Your bankroll is bigger.

My bankroll (was) only 5 grand.

Now it's 3500 dollars.

That makes me sad.

[PokerCat69]

I play pokerstars with a 75/150 blind level and 1500 starting chips. Boo-[censored]-Hoo. Not really a big deal

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm on life tilt or I would try it.

1500 dollars lost in 2 days does that to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your life is beautiful, I was down 1500 about an hour after I woke up /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but you play higher buy-ins! Your bankroll is bigger.

My bankroll (was) only 5 grand.

Now it's 3500 dollars.

That makes me sad.

[/ QUOTE ]


I know just wanted to vent. 25 in a row is unbelievable to me...you should probably play $10s for now until you get a few ITM's again to cure your sadness and realize that it is possible to make the final 3.

[LesJ]

<<I sent Party an email, their structure is changing to the following effective one week from now:

Level 1 - Blinds 5-10
Level 2 - Blinds 10-15
Level 3 - Blinds 10-20
Level 4 - Blinds 15-30
Level 5 - Blinds 20-40
Level 5 - Blinds 25-50
Level 6 - Blinds 50-75
Level 7 - Blinds 50-100
Level 8 - Blinds 75-150
Level 9 - Blinds 100-200
Level 10 - Blinds 150-300
Level 11 - Blinds 200-400
Level 12 - Blinds 250-500
Level 13 - Blinds 300-600

>>>
I am officially confused. Have they simply added a level (150-300) or are they changing the entire blind structue, as this post claims?
Thanks,
Les

[BDarch]

[ QUOTE ]
<<I sent Party an email, their structure is changing to the following effective one week from now:

Level 1 - Blinds 5-10
Level 2 - Blinds 10-15
Level 3 - Blinds 10-20
Level 4 - Blinds 15-30
Level 5 - Blinds 20-40
Level 5 - Blinds 25-50
Level 6 - Blinds 50-75
Level 7 - Blinds 50-100
Level 8 - Blinds 75-150
Level 9 - Blinds 100-200
Level 10 - Blinds 150-300
Level 11 - Blinds 200-400
Level 12 - Blinds 250-500
Level 13 - Blinds 300-600

>>>
I am officially confused. Have they simply added a level (150-300) or are they changing the entire blind structue, as this post claims?
Thanks,
Les

[/ QUOTE ]

he was joking, they just added the 75/150 level

[LesJ]

<<<he was joking, they just added the 75/150 level >>>
I guess I should have easily known it was a joke. I mean, what are the chances of PP actually replying to an email???
Les

[curtains]

lol

[Phoenix1010]

Looks like I picked a good time to go bonus whoring... I mean improving my post flop play. Ahem.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]

I guess I should have easily known it was a joke. I mean, what are the chances of PP actually replying to an email in English ???


[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
So, rather than think the quick end of the SnG and push or fold play is robotic and worthless, I think it is actually quite worthwhile and valuable to have in your arsenal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you and Scuba misunderstood what I was trying to say. Push or fold play isn't worthless; of course, it's the most important part of an SNG (tell me that *after* I won a multi today, among other reasons, because some guy folded getting 12:1 pot odds on an any two call.) It's also the easiest part of the game to learn, *by far*, and a bot can be programmed to be mathematically flawless at it. Just tell it to push or fold every hand with under 10BB according to ICM principles and 'average' opponents for the limit, and it will be a winning player. It will then proceed to drain the fish faster than you can possibly imagine, because each copy four tables and there are hundreds of copies. (On top of that, fish don't like all in or fold-athons. They like to play and hit middle pairs and call down and pick off three straight value bluffs. That's what they do best.)

After all that, it will still be very beatable (if my table was filled with 9 saabpos I'd come out ahead and so would you) but not as much as 9 guys who suck are beatable. Therefore, I think the future of profitable poker lies in either games that are harder for a bot to beat, such as PLO or higher stakes LHE, or, in SNG's, formats that allow for more play and do not favor all in/fold bots. That's all. By no means did I mean to imply that there's an inflection point where bots will beat people or anything; they probably never will, as they are easily enough counterable. But they *will* cut into your maximum profit margins, especially at a site like Party where after 40 hands all in or fold bots can play around 95% correctly.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]

more work for Eastbay though!

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. yep.

eastbay

[dmmikkel]

more play = higher ROI = lesser variance

Am I the only one who think sacrificing some $/hr is worth it to get lower variance. I could probably make more 4tabling 10/20 shorthanded or 15/30, but variance sucks and when you want to make a living of it $/hr isn't the most important thing. Being ahead 99% of the months is more important.

[pergesu]

Has anyone actually experienced a lower $/hr yet?

Stop with the speculation. Everyone needs to get like 500 under their belts and see if it's actually true. Until then it's just a bunch of people trippin for nothin. We've got a 5 page thread, people complaining about [censored], and nobody can truly have noticed a detrimental effect on their results so far.

[curtains]

So far I like the new format a lot....I'm surprised to say so, but I do.

[pergesu]

I'm 16/20 ITM today...lovin it

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

more work for Eastbay though!

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. yep.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems as good a time as any to tell you how much we appreciate the work you've done. Thank you.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone actually experienced a lower $/hr yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I am down $80 today. And it is all down to that bastardization of level 5.

I think it will help a good player though, especially a good player with a big stack.

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm 16/20 ITM today...lovin it

[/ QUOTE ]

Regression to the mean. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Crash and burn, huh Mav?

/drankin (Jäger ist mein Freund)

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
more play = higher ROI = lesser variance

Am I the only one who think sacrificing some $/hr is worth it to get lower variance. I could probably make more 4tabling 10/20 shorthanded or 15/30, but variance sucks and when you want to make a living of it $/hr isn't the most important thing. Being ahead 99% of the months is more important.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is your agenda, play SNGs at any other site other than Party. As far as I know, all other sites start with considerably more chips. If you wanted an opportunity for longer games, and more skill involved, move there.

BTW, I always think that when I read posts like this they don't know how to play SNGs. Unless you're in the game for the art of it, then okay, I digress. But, if you believe in $/hr, then I'm confident that your post is a sign.

I've had 30 buyin drops. (not 30 OOTM in a row.) But over a 5 day period, approximately ~200 SNGs, I was down 30 buyins. That's been my worst run so far. I've also had a 30 buyin up day (one day). It actually came at the end of my 5 day drought. If this is the variance I have to endure, so be it. I'm not interested in sacrificing $/hr for a little less variance. SNGs have so little variance to begin with.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm on life tilt or I would try it.

1500 dollars lost in 2 days does that to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your life is beautiful, I was down 1500 about an hour after I woke up /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Not that the levels themselves mattered much, but i dropped my first 13 tonight myself, fun stuff.

[curtains]

I ended the day up money, so my life is beautiful again.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
more play = higher ROI = lesser variance

Am I the only one who think sacrificing some $/hr is worth it to get lower variance. I could probably make more 4tabling 10/20 shorthanded or 15/30, but variance sucks and when you want to make a living of it $/hr isn't the most important thing. Being ahead 99% of the months is more important.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that is the case, I hope you aren't playing at Party.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Therefore, I think the future of profitable poker lies in either games that are harder for a bot to beat, such as PLO or higher stakes LHE, or, in SNG's, formats that allow for more play and do not favor all in/fold bots. That's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many possible bots do you think are out there at the levels you play? Furthermore, at a smaller community of players, $109s+, there is far more opportunity to find out there are bots in your game. Don't you think you've now gone overboard?

Finally, even at an alternate site with higher starting chip stacks, it eventually becomes an allin or fold fest. The only benefit I can see to playing in these games (where they last 1.5 hours) is that there's ample time for the fish to bust each other out early, and you can just wait for the money.

But even I don't worry about bots, and I'm one of those damn conspiracy theorists types.

Scuba

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
Therefore, I think the future of profitable poker lies in either games that are harder for a bot to beat, such as PLO or higher stakes LHE, or, in SNG's, formats that allow for more play and do not favor all in/fold bots.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't see why this is so. I agree that a pure mathematical analysis ICM-type push or fold play is probably the easiest to model with a bot, but most of the players I play against don't seem to be catching on. If a good players ITM is 40% and average ITM should be 30%, that still leaves quit a bit of winning for a losing player. Enough that they may stick around much like a losing limit hold 'em player may get enough big win nights to think the losses are just bad luck.

I think rather than PLO, if you want a post-flop game you should try limit 7 stud.

[adanthar]

Right now, zero. This will be a 2-3 year down the line thing...but I plan on playing poker 20 years from now.

The only other big site with lots of high limit SNG's is Stars and they are worse, not better, after the first few levels. MTT's, on the other hand, do have a lot more play depending on where you are playing.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
I think rather than PLO, if you want a post-flop game you should try limit 7 stud.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no fish restocking in limit 7 stud.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Right now, zero. This will be a 2-3 year down the line thing...but I plan on playing poker 20 years from now.


[/ QUOTE ]

Then why are you going to law school?

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think rather than PLO, if you want a post-flop game you should try limit 7 stud.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no fish restocking in limit 7 stud.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might be suprised at the crimes against poker committed daily at the 3/6 party stud tables.

[adanthar]

I'm not planning to be a lawyer 20 years from now? /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I dunno, I only discovered this whole thing during 1L. lol.

[Ryendal]

12 for me

[future]

People are panicking because they've never played postflop before.

[PokerCat69]

[ QUOTE ]
People are panicking because they've never played postflop before.

[/ QUOTE ]
oh the horror

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
People are panicking because they've never played postflop before.

[/ QUOTE ]

Becasue there is so much postflop play with 75/150 blinds ...

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
People are panicking because they've never played postflop before.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, postflop? wtf is that ? ! bwahahah

I'm teh leet push bot, and it's cool .ahahaha

/drinkikng too much

[Karak567]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People are panicking because they've never played postflop before.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, postflop? wtf is that ? ! bwahahah

I'm teh leet push bot, and it's cool .ahahaha

/drinkikng too much

[/ QUOTE ]

lol @ DasLeben's drunken antics.


Either way - there is not much more postflop play at 75/150. This is not the end of the world, though. Will just take some adjusting.

I played with it a bit last night. Started pushing with t1750 and such with good hands (AK, AQ, etc), not sure if this is the right thing to do but it worked out. My opponents interpreted it as a steal attempt and called with Ax a lot. I'm still experimenting.