Post deleted by Mat Sklansky

[jackssuk]

[MMMMMM]

I have long been suspicious about Arafat's true intentions, in part due to his remarks regarding the Oslo peace process.

It is also somewhat odd that Israel comprises a mere 1/880 of the total regional land mass including the Arab countries. Why won't the Arab states accept the right of Israel to exist? Why didn't Jordan and Egypt set up a Palestinian state on the West bank when they could?

The entire picture is actually very complex, but I think that as long as Arab nations refuse to acknowledge Israel's right to exist, we will see continual problems. Both Jews and Arabs were living in that land for thousands of years, at times in varying proportions. The Arab states should realize that 1/880 of their total land mass would be a small price to pay for lasting peace.

[nicky g]

Egypt does recognise Israel's right to exist. I think Jordan does too.

If the Palestinian refugees decided to turn 1/180 of the US's land mass into their own country exclusively for them, and threw out the locals, would everyone be ok with that? I recognise israel's right to exist but you can see why people weren't too impressed at the idea in the first place, and why there's still plenty of resentment. I also don't see why recongnising its right to exist means that no refugees should be allowed to return.

I also imagine one reason the Palestinians didn't demand a state of their own in Jordan and Egypt is that the Jordanians and Egyptians didn't treat them as badly as the Israelis do, and were probably happy enough to absorb them into normal society. Remember the current governemnt, and many Israelis, have absolutly no desire to incorporate the Occupied Teritories into Israel proper with their current population as it stands - it would create too many Arab Israelis, who aren't in much demand these days by right-wingers. They would rather boot them out, or keep them under occupation while slowly taking their best lands and clearing places such as East Jerusalem (which amounts to nearly the same thing). It's not really reasonable to expect the locals to accept to live under perpetual military occupation with no rights as citizens of anywhere.

[MMMMMM]

Let's try a different picture: if the Ameican Indians were to strive for a land of their own, in one spot, equalling 1/880 of the continental U.S. land mass (since they only lived in the continental U.S. anyway), I don't think that would be terribly unreasonable. Not much more than 1/10 of 1%. Anyone know what percent of the total land mass they have now in reservation lands anyway? (I ask because I don't know).

The Jews were severely oppressed in other Arab lands (especially Iraq) prior to the formation of Israel.

I agree it's not reasonable to expect the Palestinians to live indefinitely under such conditions. But neither is it reasonable to expect Israel to withstand eternal attacks upon its people--and that's precisely what they've been subjected to--with no end in sight. The other Arab states generally only fan the flames instead of offering major assistance (or even ) land to the Palestinians. Also, Jordan effectively stole much of the land partitioned for the Palestinians, and later gave it away to Israel following the Yom Kippur war as part of their brokered peace agreement.

Most Arab states and most Arabs, including Palestinians, don't accept Israel's right to exist. Arafat's post-Oslo comments that the peace process was essentially just a sham to be able to attack Israel from a closer vantage point, once concessions were gained, is worrisome and indicative of the mentality that refuses to compromise and insists on pushing Israel into the sea. Further, the Palestinians have broken every promise they gave Israel at the Oslo accords regarding Israel's right to security--they just keep attacking, and attacking--and of course Israel has always been attacked by even other Arab states and armies. I don't blame Israel for doing what she has to do to survive. The Arabs (including "the Palestinians") have been, and continue to be, relentless. Presuming that the attacks would cease if Israel were to give up the West Bank is naive, and contradicted by every historical evidence. The Arab world needs a major mood shift and a process of acceptance to take place before there can be peace, most likely.