Dynasty on starvation. Am I being overly sensitive?

[Il_Mostro]

In this thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2503684&page=2&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) Dynasty made the comment
[ QUOTE ]

Despite the cries of "they need our help", I don't feel compelled at all. It's not that hard to get food. Millenia before our ancestors discovered fire, they managed to eat.

[/ QUOTE ]
with regards to the 25000 people starving to death in the world each day.

When being called out to explain what he meant he just said that he was not going to get into a "pissing contest"

Now, this is not a flame thread, but I want to see what others here think. I find that statement to be very controversial and do not understand how the reasoning behind it goes.
Dynasty is a respected poster, and more important, a moderator. In my book that means he should be held to a high standard, and refusing to answer legitimate questions are not acceptable.

Maybe other disagree with me?

[Matty]

[ QUOTE ]
Dynasty is a respected poster

[/ QUOTE ]I think the right-wing circle jerks that take place here sometimes have given you a false impression.

[partygirluk]

This post sucks.

[Il_Mostro]

Well, ok... Dynasty is a respected poster on 2+2. Maybe not in OTP, at least not by all.

[Il_Mostro]

Explain please

[DBowling]

it's an internet forum.

you are being overly sensitive.

[Il_Mostro]

So that means that anyone can say anything, without having to back it up?
Why do you want the forum to be like that?

[partygirluk]

He stated an opinion, he doesn't have to back that up, moderator or not.

[Il_Mostro]

Well, obviously I disagree. I don't see it as an opinion, I see it as a statement of fact. And as such I would like to see the reasoning behind it.

[partygirluk]

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... I see it as a statement of fact. And as such I would like to see the reasoning behind it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reasoning behind a fact /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[DBowling]

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Well, obviously I disagree. I don't see it as an opinion, I see it as a statement of fact. And as such I would like to see the reasoning behind it.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you saying you think he should lose his ability to moderate if he does not do as you ask?

[Il_Mostro]

Are you purposfully trying to misunderstand?

If I rephrase it as
"I see it as a statement of fact. And as such I would like to see the evidence for it"

Better?

[Il_Mostro]

No

[superleeds]

Where's the 'I disagree with Dynasty, and would be amused by his attempts to explain his statement' option

[ripdog]

[ QUOTE ]
Where's the 'I disagree with Dynasty, and would be amused by his attempts to explain his statement' option

[/ QUOTE ]

I voted "other", but this is what I was thinking when I made the vote.

[Felix_Nietsche]

Most of the world's starvation is self inflicted.
The causes of starvation inlude:
1. Psychotic Govt (eg North Korea, they have money for nuclear weapons but not to feed their own people)
2. Incompetant Govt (usually centrally controlled economies)
3. Having excessively large familes (having 15-20 kids)
4. War

I see that North Korea is asking for food donations.
Every kilogram of food donated will go to feed the North Korean Army while the people will continued to be starved. Meanwhile the money that the North Korean govt 'saves' by not wasting the money on food will go into their nuclear program.

[Il_Mostro]

[ QUOTE ]
Most of the world's starvation is self inflicted.

[/ QUOTE ]
The rest of your post I somewhat agree with, or at least can see where you come from. But the first sentence is not really correct, is it? Define self inflicted.

Also note that I'm not advocating mindlessly spending money on aid. It was not that part of Dynasty's post I didn't agree with.

[sam h]

Dynasty's statement was absurd. But he has the right not to explain it. Sometimes people say things that they would rather just see buried and forgotten. I've certainly done that before on this board, and probably will sometime again. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Il_Mostro]

Maybe it's just me, but I much prefer to admit I was wrong and move on than to try to bury it. I probably have instances where I have not done so, but that's not really intentional.

Btw, I don't talk about the "right" anyone has the right to say anything (more or less) around here. But I much prefer an environment where people either argue their point, or if they can't, admit that they can't or conclude that they where wrong. And that goes even more for moderators, since they set the example of what's acceptable behaviour on the board.

Rant over.

[Il_Mostro]

[ QUOTE ]

Dynasty's statement was absurd

[/ QUOTE ]
There are now 11 voters who belive Dynasty was correct in concluding that anyone who starves to death basically does so by choice. I wonder if it's possible to get one or more of them to offer any reasoning behind their belifs

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
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Dynasty's statement was absurd

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There are now 11 voters who belive Dynasty was correct in concluding that anyone who starves to death basically does so by choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was not what I said.

Your ridiculous misrepresentation is why I hardly ever get involved in these ridiculous threads. Even if somebody clearly states something, somebody else will read it whatever way they want to make it mean something else.

[jcx]

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[ QUOTE ]

Dynasty's statement was absurd

[/ QUOTE ]
There are now 11 voters who belive Dynasty was correct in concluding that anyone who starves to death basically does so by choice. I wonder if it's possible to get one or more of them to offer any reasoning behind their belifs

[/ QUOTE ]

What needs to be explained that has not been said? It is almost always the local govt's mismangement/misappropriation of land or food supplies that results in local starvation. War is also a bitch. What is your real intention here? I sense it is to try and point fingers at the evil white man starving out the poor around the world for our amusement. Well, I'm not signing up for that guilt trip.

To explain why, please consider the nation of Zimbabwe. A few thousand white farmers, most of whom bought their land with the blessing of Robert Mugabe's regime, once produced enough food to feed not only the entire nation of Zimbabwe, but most of its neighbors besides. Their lands were stolen from them (which I imagine you approved of. Forgive me if I am incorrect) and distributed to Mugabe's cronies, who sent in squatters to enforce their claims. As a result of this, no one will loan money to farms in Zimbabwe & the few with the know-how to run a large farming operation have fled the country. So a nation whos granaries were bursting at the seams a few short years ago now faces famine conditions in certain parts of the country. As an aside, we might also consider the livelihoods provided by those farmers to the local populations that have been lost (farm hands, truck drivers, etc).

There are hundreds of millions of impoverished peasants in China and India, both developing nations who are not yet rich by any means. Yet the overwhelming majority of their respective populations manage to eat every day. How do they pull this off? For whatever the individual human rights problems these nations have (and it is considerable), they do not engage in policies that will cause the systematic starvation of their populations. It is unfortunate that so many tin-pot dictators do. While I have sympathy for those who live under such regimes, their plight is not my fault and there is nothing I can do for them.

[Il_Mostro]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not that hard to get food. Millenia before our ancestors discovered fire, they managed to eat.

[/ QUOTE ]
So, it's not hard to get food. But people who starve to death does not do it by choice?

Please enlighten us.

[Il_Mostro]

I belive you are changing the scope.

I understand Dynastys words as being directed to the individual person starving, not to the government or whatever. And since he refuses to explain what he meant I can only go with my understanding of his statement.

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What is your real intention here?

[/ QUOTE ]
My real intention is exactly what I stated in my OP. I want to know if people agree with the statement. I find it to be absurd and ignorant.

[evil_twin]

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Your ridiculous misrepresentation is why I hardly ever get involved in these ridiculous threads. Even if somebody clearly states something, somebody else will read it whatever way they want to make it mean something else.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the thread "Helping the World's Poor", discussing the thousands of people who are starving to death daily:

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Well, it would seem that in order for everybody to get these services, they would only have to pony up about $5-$20 each per year. If people aren't willing to do what it takes to earn and pay that amount themselves, why should I be giving it away?

[/ QUOTE ]

Feel free to not get involved, but your original statement was entirely absurd and you've done nothing to back it up since. This is simply because you can't.

We don't live in a world where everyone has a chance. Many millions of people have absolutely no chance at all.

Feel free not to care about that and not to donate money. But don't pretend it's not happening. Or indeed that corrupt governments are the entire reason we can't help resolve the issue.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Dynasty's statement was absurd. But he has the right not to explain it. Sometimes people say things that they would rather just see buried and forgotten. I've certainly done that before on this board, and probably will sometime again. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. On the other hand people over their reject our gifts of free Polio Vaccines because they think we are trying to poison them. Attitudes like that makes me lose faith in them.

[wacki]

"I agree. On the other hand people over there reject our gifts of free Polio Vaccines because they think we are trying to poison them. Attitudes like that makes me lose faith in them."

fixed spelling. I am starting to think I'm dyslexic. /images/graemlins/confused.gif /images/graemlins/frown.gif

-drunk wacki

[lastchance]

Didn't the European/American Settlers give blankets to the Indians filled with smallpox? Just something to think about.