Newbie Question

[rayrns]

I have read that you need different playing hands for different positions. My question is: I am 2 to the right of the button. Everyone before me folds preflop. Do I use the hands that are normal for late position or because of the folds am I now an early position player and need to upgrade the quality of the cards to open?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

"Early" "Middle" and "Late" with respect to postion refers to how many possible callers there are after you act. 2 off the button is always middle position.

[eMarkM]

Do I use the hands that are normal for late position or because of the folds am I now an early position player and need to upgrade the quality of the cards to open?

Technically, your late middle position. Only CO and button are considered late. Anyway, no, do not consider yourself in EP now. You'll cost yourself a lot of money if you're only coming in with group 1/2 type hands. Think of why you throw away a hand like KTo in EP. It's because there's 7-9 players left to act behind you and you have no idea how many raises there might be. The odds of being dominated by a AK are much higher, so you toss this hand in the muck in EP. But this is not the case when you're opening in LP with only 3-4 players left. Much less chance of getting raised/dominated now. Now you may very well have the best hand with KTo and it's certainly playable.

If you do open the betting from late-MP and on you pretty much want to always raise. It's considered weak play to open limp here. So yes, where you would throw away KTo in EP, here you would raise with it and try and win the blinds. If fact, there's a lot of much weaker hands many players will raise with here to win the blinds.

[rayrns]

Thank you both for the input. It answers much.

[HDPM]

You also want a feel for how hands ply shorthanded versus multi-way in this spot. Depending on game conditions, there are hands I would not play in that spot that I would play in early position. Mason has written about this concept. For instance, in a very loose and passive low-limit game I might limp early with a small pair that I would fold in later position if it's folded to me. That's because if I end up playing heads-up or 3-way the small pair is not very good, particularly since you should be open raising or folding in that spot basically. (Being results oriented the last time I open raised with a small pair in late position I flopped quads. So there.) If the game is not loose-passive though, I would fold the small pairs and some middle pairs others sometimes play for that matter. So there are a bunch of factors to consider. Another example is that if you open limp early you would rather have J-Ts than A-To, but open raising late you would rather have the A-To.

[eMarkM]

if I end up playing heads-up or 3-way the small pair is not very good

I disagree with this. Opening from the CO or button I would raise with any pair. These are great blind steal hands and do fine heads up as you have a made hand already. The defenders have to pair up to beat you. In fact, you're a favorite against someone defending with overcards and may just win the blinds anyway. If the flop comes up a bunch of face cards and you take heat, you can fold. But I'd always go for the blinds in this situation, always.

[KSU78]

This is an interesting question. From my point of view it becomes a question of what hands I am not going to play when I am the first to act with at most two callers behind me and the blinds. I like to play little and medium pairs but they have lost much of their attraction in this situation. They need something like 7.5:1 pre-flop. So, much of that is going to have to go as implied odds and if there is a raise, I have just wasted a small bet. The implied odds may still not be sufficient if I hit my set. Suited connectors fall in the same category. I want something that is going to be in the lead from the flop on. So, what I am left with are big pairs and big cards. I guess in some respects I would be playing more towards an early position starting hand strategy. However, I may play them differently than I would from early position because I am relatively assured of a small pot. Limping with a big pair is a good strategy here. So, is limping with AKs-ATs. I would tend to raise with weaker hands like KQos or KQs. This follows a show strength when weak and exhibit weakness when strong philosophy.

I don't think that I would play KTos as suggested. I still have to respect the players yet to act. Just because there are only two players left to act before the blinds does not necessarily mean they don't have anything. I tend to think KTos is a fine muckable hand in most situations including this one.