flop action?

[mlb3zr]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Heroine is UTG+1 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Heroine raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>

Villains are pretty standard Party 2/4 - loose and mostly passive. What's my action and why?

[zuluking]

[ QUOTE ]
What's my action and why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh...bet, because you have the best hand? Is this a trick question?

[Weatherhead03]

Bet..or else it will get check through.

[Jakesta]

If they are loose and passive then bet the [censored] out of your hand. Just bet the [censored] [censored] out of it and those fuckers will call you. Don't miss bets by slowplaying.

Why are there so many of these posts on how to play monsters? A hand like this comes along maybe 3 or 4 times a week. Don't worry about it. Post some more top pair hands.

[cold_cash]

If you like money I recommend betting.

On the other hand, if you're in the mood to get frisky, win less money, or risk shooting yourself in the foot, I recommend doing something else.

(Bet. How many times have you raised w/ AK, missed the flop, bet, and cussed when called in multiple places?)

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
If they are loose and passive then bet the [censored] out of your hand. Just bet the [censored] [censored] out of it and those fuckers will call you. Don't miss bets by slowplaying.

[/ QUOTE ]

So seriously, what do you think she should do? Hehe.

P.S. It still pisses me off that I don't know how to beat the censor. I really like to let the expletives fly sometimes.

[Jaran]

Bet, and hope to get raised. Am I missing something here? LPP love to call.

-Jaran

[PokerMatt]

blind post...

With early position and a loose/passive table I don't think a check-raise will work very often (or a check-call if you want to slowplay) because the players are likely to check through. Thus, you should bet the hand. Passive players will likely call your bets, especially if they have a straight draw. Hopefully they'll hit their draws so you can suck more money out of them.

[krishanleong]

Betting this flop eats monkey turds.

Krishan

[SoftcoreRevolt]

Bet, only a girl wouldn't bet this flop, and you don't want to be a girl now, do you?

If check raised or raised on the turn, continue pressing the Bet/Raise button. Only cease raising if running aces appear and a villain emails you a screen shot of him being dealt AQ.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet, only a girl wouldn't bet this flop, and you don't want to be a girl now, do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if you know, but she is a girl. I like it that way actually.

Krishan

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet..or else it will get check through.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh my god, it could get checked through. That is a disaster.

Krishan

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are there so many of these posts on how to play monsters? A hand like this comes along maybe 3 or 4 times a week. Don't worry about it. Post some more top pair hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an interesting monster. Plus everyone is [censored] it up.

Krishan

[Jaran]

Not betting this flop eats what's crapped out after eating monkey turds. The read was loose/passive. They will call. Unless you know something here that wasn't in the initial post, checking is giving away money, IMO.

-Jaran

[Disconnected]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an interesting monster. Plus everyone is [censored] it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that because you want to give someone a chance to improve to a strong 2nd best hand?

Still, the pot is already fairly big, even a gutshot would call a flop bet here, I can't believe that on a loose passive table, that betting would be a horrible way to play this.

Oh, wait, maybe we should wait for the turn to protect our hand /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Betting this flop eats monkey turds.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you've made your feelings on this hand clear. Now we just need to hear the why.

This is not to say that I necessarily disagree with you...I'm just interested in your reasoning, as I can see two sides to this one.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Betting this flop eats monkey turds.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you've made your feelings on this hand clear. Now we just need to hear the why.

This is not to say that I necessarily disagree with you...I'm just interested in your reasoning, as I can see two sides to this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

They are all the normal reasons to slowplay. People forget them. I'm still waiting for someone with a lobotomy to say, "Fastplaying is the new slowplaying".

Slowplay because,

1. You have a hand that is near unbeatable (crippled the deck)
2. A free card won't hurt. It may improve opponents hands to 2nd best hands or draws to 2nd best hands.
3. It disguises your hand as a turn bet after a check through on the flop just looks like AK or the like.

Everyone likes to say, bet because people like to call. This is dumb. It's a little tough to call a bet on this board. Only 3 cards out match the board. There might be a gutshot or JT. Most hands will have just a single overcard. Maybe a pp under the board.

This flop play on this hand was brilliant. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Krishan

[silkyslim]

bet?

[Jaran]

Exactly what card on the turn that will change things enough for people to call in a now relatively small pot? I think you are more apt to get calls on the flop where people will still feel like they are drawing live.

-Jaran

[cold_cash]

What dream world do you live in where a flop bet folds the field? Some will call. Hell, you might get lucky and get raised by a 9. If you check that can't happen.

There's aslo a big difference between not betting and not raising. If someone had bet into our Hero, then maybe she should just call.

If I was in this exact spot and it was checked to me I would bet if the board was QQ2 and expect to be called in at least two places, especially against a line-up like this one.

[mlb3zr]

I am going against the forum here and checking. I don't think slowplaying is always a grievous error. /images/graemlins/wink.gif I'd like to let people try to catch up bit or try to push me off what they see as missed overs. But here's how it plays out. I think the rest of the flop is interesting. Turn and river are of course, obvious.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Heroine is UTG+1 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Heroine raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, Heroine checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, SB folds, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Heroine raises</font>, CO folds, Button calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Heroine bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Heroine 3-bets</font>, Button calls, UTG calls $6.50 (All-In), Heroine calls, Button calls.

River: (19.37 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Heroine bets</font>, Button calls.

Final Pot: 21.37 BB

[bozlax]

My concern is that there really isn't a card on the turn that's going to improve anybody's hand, unless somebody boats up their 9, so by giving a free card ALL you're accomplishing is giving somebody a free chance to beat you.

You also don't have the best position for a slow-play, exactly in the middle of the pack. When a rock falls on the turn and you come out firing having checked the flop, you're still going to get a fold from the same hands that were folding the flop, whether they've improved or not.

OTOH, if you bet the flop when the bets are cheap it may just be seen as a continuation bet, and you might be able to get some people willing to pay to draw. It just seems that checking this through and betting out when it's checked to you on the turn screams monster, whereas betting out the flop just screams I want you to think I have a monster.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
What dream world do you live in where a flop bet folds the field?

[/ QUOTE ]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: 2 BB

[DeathDonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
This flop play on this hand was brilliant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Consider that you might be slightly biased.

Wise man once said "betting is underrated".

-DeathDonkey

[mlb3zr]

[ QUOTE ]
What dream world do you live in where a flop bet folds the field? [ QUOTE ]


it happens, even against LPs. especially when you happen to be running hot at the table, which I was.

[bozlax]

So, UTG is cashing out, Button has a 9 and CO bailed. If you had bet out, Button raises, UTG gets the rest of his money in quicker, and you get to 3-bet. I don't really see slow-playing changing this hand for the better.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
My concern is that there really isn't a card on the turn that's going to improve anybody's hand, unless somebody boats up their 9, so by giving a free card ALL you're accomplishing is giving somebody a free chance to beat you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Remind why someone getting a 9 full boat is a bad thing?

Krishan

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]

You also don't have the best position for a slow-play, exactly in the middle of the pack. When a rock falls on the turn and you come out firing having checked the flop, you're still going to get a fold from the same hands that were folding the flop, whether they've improved or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong. If someone doesn't have a pair they are less likely to call a bet than if they have a pair.

Krishan

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This flop play on this hand was brilliant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Consider that you might be slightly biased.

Wise man once said "betting is underrated".

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell yeah I'm biased. The brilliant part was the flop cr and the thinking behind it.

Just want to point out that there is a chapter in TOP and HEPFAP on slowplaying. There is a place for slowplaying in poker. It is absolutely correct in some situations. If you don't slowplay here, where do you slowplay?

Krishan

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
So, UTG is cashing out, Button has a 9 and CO bailed. If you had bet out, Button raises, UTG gets the rest of his money in quicker, and you get to 3-bet. I don't really see slow-playing changing this hand for the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite.

Krishan

[SteveL91]

[ QUOTE ]


They are all the normal reasons to slowplay. People forget them. I'm still waiting for someone with a lobotomy to say, "Fastplaying is the new slowplaying".



[/ QUOTE ]

I think you make more on this particular flop by just betting out. This is such an action flop that people will be quite content to shuffle in a bet or two. If the flop were Q22 or something, I could see slow-playing.

On this flop, ANYONE with two cards higher than a 9 or 10 will be chasing after this flop: JT isn't going anywhere; KJ isn't going anywhere; AT isn't going anywhere. The flop being rainbow definitely does give more merit to slow-playing, but I just think this flop hit so many hands people will likely limp as well as cold-call with, you make more by playing it straight-forward.

As for your reasons to slow-play, I think they're valid. The problem I have is that while giving a free-card won't hurt, the flop is just begging for action that people will happily pay to see the turn. Also, I don't know that there's any value in trying to disguise your hand in a big field at 2/4. By and large, the players make no attempt to put you on a hand; they don't particularly care what you might be betting or checking or why you're doing so.

[youdnf]

Bet youll get called by an ace, if an ace turns you might try to check raise them.

[bozlax]

Oh, yeah, oops.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, UTG is cashing out, Button has a 9 and CO bailed. If you had bet out, Button raises, UTG gets the rest of his money in quicker, and you get to 3-bet. I don't really see slow-playing changing this hand for the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree.