Splitting up the forum into different levels

[EnderFFX]

Would this be possible? Someone else mentioned this and I figured I would post it to get some feedback. Personally I'd like to see three levels of posting.

Low Level - $33 and under buyin
Mid Level - $55-$109 buyin
High Level - $215+ buyin

I'm a low level poster and would love to see a forum devoted for my learning and development as a SnG player.

[wiggs73]

This has been discussed several times in the past. Most have been against it because for one, most of the better posters would post in the upper limit forum. I think most of the good advice would disappear for the low level players. Also, if you aspire to move up, it's never too early to start reading strategy for the higher limits. A good SNGer should be able to beat every level and to do that, one must know the subtle (and not so subtle) differences between buy-ins. Also, lots of strategy overlaps between buy-ins. Personally I don't really see a need to split.

[Moonsugar]

This is a good idea.

[microbet]

If there's a vote, I vote no.

There are poster's from each level I want to read and I don't want to check two forums.

That $215+ would be a real lively forum.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Would this be possible? Someone else mentioned this and I figured I would post it to get some feedback. Personally I'd like to see three levels of posting.

Low Level - $33 and under buyin
Mid Level - $55-$109 buyin
High Level - $215+ buyin

I'm a low level poster and would love to see a forum devoted for my learning and development as a SnG player.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but this is the worst idea ever.

I really appreciate it when the higher level players have anything to say about one of my posts.

The "problem" with this forum is that so many of the top posters do not post as much anymore as they used to. Telling the best players that we don't want to hear from them is a terrible idea.

[Geordie Ramone]

I play at the $11s but I think this is a terrible idea. I wouldnt want to lose the input of the higher level players and even though all advice doesnt apply to all levels I want to improve as a player and trying to work out which is good advice and when it applies to the levels I am playing makes me think more about the game and understand the principles involved on a deeper level.

[45suited]

Just off the top of my head... Do you really think that Adanthar, PVS, Curtains, NegativeEV, Strassa, etc., etc. are going to bother slumming in the 33s and under forum or whatever?

Now, I kill the 11s and 22s but anyone who would rather hear my advice then theirs (regarding any game on any buy-in) needs their heads examined.

For every Gigabet "blocks" post that we struggle to understand coming from the top guys, there are countless "I've played 20 games and I'm concerned about my ROI" posts from the lower level guys. The best players are hardly the problem with this forum!

[AliasMrJones]

If it were going to be done, I think

Low Buy-in: $55 and under
High Buy-in: $109+ (or actually anything over $55 in case there are some on other sites)

is a better split, but I give it thumbs down in any case.

[kyro]

When I made that post, I wasn't really pushing for it. Personally, I don't think it is as terrible as an idea as a lot of you seem to think. Here were my reasons for that post.

1) Someone made a post that was from the $215s asking about a certain turn push. This push would be absolutely terrible at the $11s, and personally, I think pretty bad even at the $55s. With posts like these, some posters may get the wrong idea and try FPS at the lower limits.

2. Let's face it. Many of the posts regarding plays at the $11s are standard plays. If you're playing at the $55s, you usually aren't going to be asking if pushing with AK on the bubble is a good play. This isn't to ridicule the lower limit posters in any way. (On a side note, I was playing the $11s as late as February of this year. I've been there recently.) It's merely to point out that every limit has different methods that should make you a winner.

I would never plan on "ditching" the lower limit forums. If, in fact, the forums were switched up, I would try posting in every single one. I can't say the same for other posters, but that's the way I feel about it.

I'm starting to ramble now. If I had to choose, I think the forums are fine the way they are. Splitting up the forums would not be a disaster in my opinion, but I don't think it's a necessity by any means.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

1) Someone made a post that was from the $215s asking about a certain turn push. This push would be absolutely terrible at the $11s, and personally, I think pretty bad even at the $55s. With posts like these, some posters may get the wrong idea and try FPS at the lower limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

God forbid that people think about what is written, try to process it, and figure out why it might not apply. If they try stuff that fails horribly and eventually realize why it fails horribly, that's not a bad thing.

[ QUOTE ]

2. Let's face it. Many of the posts regarding plays at the $11s are standard plays. . . . It's merely to point out that every limit has different methods that should make you a winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

Plays that are very standard may not draw much in the way of comments, but this isn't really a problem, as it's going to be that way no matter how you split things up.

I'm not sure there's any point to splitting the forum. It's not like there's a huge volume of higher-limit contributions on a regular basis, anyway.

[EnderFFX]

I initially suggested splitting the forum into three levels equivalent to the type of play that occurs at each level. The $5-$33,$55-$109, $215 seem to have all their own playing styles.

If splitting the forum into the 3 levels would mean the lower level players missing out on great posts by the veterans, then I would not split the forums.

Just an idea /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

1) Someone made a post that was from the $215s asking about a certain turn push. This push would be absolutely terrible at the $11s, and personally, I think pretty bad even at the $55s. With posts like these, some posters may get the wrong idea and try FPS at the lower limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

God forbid that people think about what is written, try to process it, and figure out why it might not apply. If they try stuff that fails horribly and eventually realize why it fails horribly, that's not a bad thing.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you just outlined the biggest advantage to splitting them up.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

I think you just outlined the biggest advantage to splitting them up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm confused. Are you saying you don't want people to learn? Then what's the point of posting anything but your own hands, ever?

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
That $215+ would be a real lively forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume this is sarcasm? And if it's not, it should be.

[jcm4ccc]

I currently play at the $55s. I would hate to have to move back down to the $33s or $22s. You mean I would also have to move down in my forum? Damn, talk about kicking a guy when he's down.

And when I posted about why I was moving down to the $33s. Which forum would I post that in? The one I was leaving, or the one I was returning to?

Also, when I play at 7 in the morning, I play in the $22s. Should I post those hands in the lower forum, or the middle forum? In other words, do the forums define tournaments (in which case I would post in the lower forum) or do they define people (in which case I would post in the middle forum)

[adanthar]

I'd still post in the lower buyins forum.

The thing about low limit SNG's is that trying to apply around half of what I talk about and around 99.9% of what Gigabet talks about just hurts your game a lot. There is no benefit to 'learning' whatsoever when what you take out of it is essentially 'play like a fish'.

edit: I don't think this place needs three forums, but I do think both the SNG and multi forum should be split into two (and FWIW, I'd probably be a low multi poster.)

[kyro]

I have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion. So I'll try to explain myself better.

I said that players at the $11s might get the wrong idea by reading posts about the $215s and applying them wrong.

You said this is good for them, as it allows them to think about the hand, and decide why it would be a bad play for them to use it at their level.

I agree. The thing is, IF the forums were split, the lower limit players would know that they are entering an entire new world, and they could adjust accordingly. I highly doubt they think the same way when they click on a link to a $215 hand that is sandwiched in between "CALL THIS ALLIN AT THE $11s" and "WHAT'S A GOOD ROI FOR THE $33s???"

Again, I'm definitely not sold on splitting them, and probably leaning against it, but it's food for thought.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no benefit to 'learning' whatsoever when what you take out of it is essentially 'play like a fish'.

[/ QUOTE ]

Get rid of the scare quotes. This is what I'm saying. Much of that stuff isn't applicable at low buyins, where opponents aren't as readable, aren't going to make big reads or sensible plays based on those reads. But, people who try it and discover that isn't applicable really HAVE learned something.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

I agree. The thing is, IF the forums were split, the lower limit players would know that they are entering an entire new world, and they could adjust accordingly. I highly doubt they think the same way when they click on a link to a $215 hand that is sandwiched in between "CALL THIS ALLIN AT THE $11s" and "WHAT'S A GOOD ROI FOR THE $33s???"

[/ QUOTE ]

Aha. Okay, that's an interesting point.

[hardinda]

I think it should be split into these type of groups:

ROI Discussion
Hand Discussion
Other Discussion

Then we could all just skip the ROI posts.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
ROI Discussion

[/ QUOTE ]

This would simply have one sticky FAQ:

Q: What... ? How... ? Does... ? Should... ?

A: NO!

citanul sez: You are a worthless piece of dog excrement.

[maddog2030]

A lot of people's reactions are that they will lose a lot of the top posters advice. I think this is true to an extent, but when a good-great poster usually responds its to a higher buyin game (or responding to an established poster) anyway.

I think this will help to create a higher quality SNG forum on both sides. As it is now, most of the threads are useless and the sheer number of them stymie people (especially the good posters who have seen these threads 1000+ times) from seriously reading the forum. Or at best people are glancing at the most recent thread titles and reading a few. Possibly. I know that's what I do and I suck.

People underestimate how information overload just results in people ignoring 99% of the information.

Yes, this is a public forum and people are allowed to post whatever they want under the T&C. But I think directing this traffic in a more intelligent way can make the forums better for everybody. The people who are in the $11-$33s but know basic bankroll answers and whatever (say like me) can answer the questions of the newcomers who don't know to search for FAQ. All the meanwhile, advanced strategies can be discussed in the higher buyin forum. The better players are more likely to respond to these since these situations are more likely to interest them. They also are less likely to miss a thread they'd respond to in the sea of other threads they would never respond to. Yes, there will still be plenty of crap to wade through, but it will be much more manageable and probably won't deter good posters from contributing to the forum.

This is a simple case of information management. Yes, there are some cons as mentioned by others, but I think the pros far outweight them.

[microbet]

Yeah, it was sarcasm. The $215+ would die.

except for trolls - or lower limit wannabees

[New York Jet]

How about splitting it in two:<ul type="square"> Good Posts (Strategies, hand analysis, etc.)
Bad Posts (Bad beats, "How is my ROI?", etc.)
[/list]It would be on the honor system. If your post sucks, put it in the Bad Posts forum. Otherwise, post in the Good Posts forum.

In case you were wondering, this post belongs in the Bad Posts forum.

[joeboe2001]

Many posters show their buyin/level in the subject--if everyone did it, we could have cake and eat it too.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
Many posters show their buyin/level in the subject--if everyone did it, we could have cake and eat it too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read my response to gumpzilla. Sure, that's all well and good, but I'm curious if it really hits home with some posters what level they are analyzing.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

Read my response to gumpzilla. Sure, that's all well and good, but I'm curious if it really hits home with some posters what level they are analyzing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've thought about it some more, and I think splitting the forum may be a good idea, but instead of splitting it by levels, I'd suggest the following split:

- jokes about Yugo/raptor/skipperbob/etc.
- actual content

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]

2. Let's face it. Many of the posts regarding plays at the $11s are standard plays. If you're playing at the $55s, you usually aren't going to be asking if pushing with AK on the bubble is a good play. This isn't to ridicule the lower limit posters in any way. (On a side note, I was playing the $11s as late as February of this year. I've been there recently.) It's merely to point out that every limit has different methods that should make you a winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think even a good player benefits from explaining standard plays from time to time. If he skips all those he might never find out other ways of looking at it. And having to formulate why you feel a certain play is correct forces you to think about the play. And when much of what you do is at least partly on auto-pilot that is a useful thing.

That said, no one should expect every poster to give their answer to if pushing AJ from CO with 2xBB is the correct play. One is enough.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

I think it is a bad idea, but maybe posts could be tagged so we know what levels these posts are most applicable to when we read them and can be filtered if desired. I would hate to lose the advice of the experienced players. Additionally, I believe that experienced players learn, and strengthen their own play by teaching us.

[lastchance]

Every single post on this forum should include the easiest way of getting a read on your opponents, buy-in level.

I use the term "read" very loosely, as is applicable at my level.

[HoldingFolding]

One thing I would liike to see is the buy-in being shown with HHs. I'm sure this would be a minor tweak to bisonbison's hand converter. If that's not an option or if bisonbison had a legitimate reason for not including it then include it above your post.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
One thing I would liike to see is the buy-in being shown with HHs. I'm sure this would be a minor tweak to bisonbison's hand converter. If that's not an option or if bisonbison had a legitimate reason for not including it then include it above your post.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think every hand query should have the buyin in the topic. It is one of the most important pieces of information for those reading it. Also it will let those that aren't interested skip it.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ROI Discussion

[/ QUOTE ]

This would simply have one sticky FAQ:

Q: What... ? How... ? Does... ? Should... ?

A: NO!

citanul sez: You are a worthless piece of dog excrement.


[/ QUOTE ]

Heheheh. We should probably have a special Citanul section, where you go when you want to whine about a bad beat and need the catharsis of being cussed back to reality.

[Newt_Buggs]

I don't know if doing this would help the lower buy in players, but I know that I would definitly appreciate it. I don't have as much time to post anymore and I'm starting to just skip over every post created by someone that I don't recognize or that doesn't have a title that really grabs my attention. I know that I'm missing out on a lot of good posts and debates as well that get buried when I don't check the forums for 2 days.

[curtains]

I think splitting the forum is really a terrible idea.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Read my response to gumpzilla. Sure, that's all well and good, but I'm curious if it really hits home with some posters what level they are analyzing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've thought about it some more, and I think splitting the forum may be a good idea, but instead of splitting it by levels, I'd suggest the following split:

- jokes about Yugo/raptor/skipperbob/etc.
- actual content

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't even get me started. I like a good "nc" post as much as the next guy, but those posts are just retarded. Someone needs to remind them that there are more than 5 people who post in this forum.