Empire $15000 hand. What is You line?

[zheka]

About 40 left till ITM. UTG seemed reasonable, but I did not put him on the big hand. He limped a few times with blinds at 200 and 300 without a monster.Button just moved to this table few hands ago.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t7819)
UTG (t10470)
UTG+1 (t4138)
MP1 (t8592)
MP2 (t5972)
MP3 (t18420)
CO (t3043)
Button (t7879)
Hero (t7192)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls t300, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Button calls t300, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t1200) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero???

Can You tell me what is the play and why.
I will post results later.
Thanks.

[jrforman]

Lead out for pot

[michaliv]

I would bet pot here. There is always a chance that someone hit their flush, but you can still fill up. Also it is more likely that someone will chase you with a single diamond. It is best not to give any free cards in this situation.

[mlagoo]

Lead out for about 1000 on the flop. If someone raises you, push. You are almost certainly ahead, and if not, you have 17 outs (7+10) to catch up. (edit: should clear this up. 7 outs once and 10 outs once.)

If you are flatcalled on the flop, push any non-diamond turn.

[blockafor]

I would bet only 600 on the flop to make it appear that you are semi-bluffing a diamond and to induce a raise from a Q or two pair and then you push all-in. If you're only called on the flop, push a non-diamond on the turn.

[People_Mover]

[ QUOTE ]
Lead out for pot

[/ QUOTE ]

I 100% agree.

[BettyBoopAA]

I would bet only 600 on the flop to make it appear that you are semi-bluffing a diamond and to induce a raise from a Q or two pair and then you push all-in. If you're only called on the flop, push a non-diamond on the turn.

No, that's not what your bet will accomplish, it will give someone with a big diamond 3-1 pots odds to call. Bet the pot here. With 4 players in the hand no one moves in with just a Q with that board.

[locutus2002]

33 is probably the best hand. 7% someone has 2 diamonds, &lt; 1% they have TT, QQ is unlikely.

With such a coordinated board, it's likely someone bets it.
I c/r for the size of the pot. Against hands that can continue, you are about ~2:1, such as AdJx. I move in on any non-diamond turn.

[11t]

Bet the pot. Way too risky to check here.

[blockafor]

[ QUOTE ]
No, that's not what your bet will accomplish, it will give someone with a big diamond 3-1 pots odds to call. Bet the pot here. With 4 players in the hand no one moves in with just a Q with that board.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right that my bet of 1/2 the pot will give someone with a diamond 3-1 odds to call, but I still think its the right play when looking at the big picture. I wouldn't say that a Q necessarily moves in, but I 100% think that a queen will often raise enough to make it incorrect (with respect to immediate odds) for a lone diamond to call.

Say you bet the pot on the flop and are flat called and a diamond hits the turn. What do you do then (besides wishing you bet less on the flop)?

[RedRum]

[ QUOTE ]

Say you bet the pot on the flop and are flat called and a diamond hits the turn. What do you do then (besides wishing you bet less on the flop)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Check fold. I'm only out 1500, have 5600 back, and I'm not puttin another chip in the pot. I also don't feel bad about it because when I bet I was ahead.

Drink More,
RedRum

[mlagoo]

Here's a question: what size bet do you call on the turn if a diamond falls after you're called by say, two people on the flop? there would be a hell of a lot of chips in the pot (well, around 4000 or so), and because every other person in the hand has you covered, the implied odds, if someone had the nut flush and you rivered a boat, seem pretty tantalizing. something to think about.

[locutus2002]

I don't like leading out at all. What's your plan if unknown player pushes?

how much of a bet are you going to make if one or two players call and the turn is:

pot is T3600 you have T6000 other player has you covered.

Diamond: 9 ways
K,A,J: 9 ways
9: 3 ways
8,5,4,2: 12 ways

If you're always pushing non-diamonds, then you were giving some good odds to call the flop bet.

Also if you check, and its checked around its not the worst thing for hero, as the hand is mostly resolved by the turn and hero can pick up a nice pot without raising his blood pressure so much.

[locutus2002]

Not to hard,


9 outs for boat. Need to get 4:1 implied odds. You can call ~T3000
Your boat is well disguised and will get payed off against flush.

[Dan Rutter]

I would lead out on this flop for around $1000. Once I did this I would see how my opponents respond. If a non-diamond hits I am putting in a bet of around 3/4 the pot. I would call a flop push.

[zheka]

Thank You all.
I hate the way I played this hand, so flame away.
Here the rest of it.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t7819)
UTG (t10470)
UTG+1 (t4138)
MP1 (t8592)
MP2 (t5972)
MP3 (t18420)
CO (t3043)
Button (t7879)
Hero (t7192)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls t300, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Button calls t300, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t1200) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t600</font>, BB folds, UTG calls t600, Button calls t600.

Turn: (t3000) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets t800</font>, Button calls t800, Hero calls t800.

River: (t5400) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t6179 (All-In)</font>, Hero folds, UTG folds.

Final Pot: t11579

[blockafor]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like leading out at all. What's your plan if unknown player pushes?

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you're talking about the flop. In which case I call that all day long and expect to win the hand at least 60% of the time.

[ QUOTE ]
how much of a bet are you going to make if one or two players call and the turn is:

pot is T3600 you have T6000 other player has you covered.

Diamond: 9 ways
K,A,J: 9 ways
9: 3 ways
8,5,4,2: 12 ways

If you're always pushing non-diamonds, then you were giving some good odds to call the flop bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

Are KAJ9 supposed to be scare cards? 8542???
I don't think many people are calling even a 600 chip bet on that flop with just straight draws w/o a diamond.

[blockafor]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank You all.
I hate the way I played this hand, so flame away.
Here the rest of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's no sense in us flaming or even in you posting the rest of the hand. We already told you what we'd do.

I like the flop bet, though. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[locutus2002]

Yeah, K, 9, J non diamond.

There's T3200 in the pot, you have ~T6000, villain has u covered. What's your move?

[AlwaysWrong]

Flop bet is fine. I'd bet a little more, like 800 to 1000, because it was so multiway. With a 1/2 pot bet the first caller makes it really easy for more people to come getting a good price to make their draw.

Checking on the turn is a little odd, but reasonable. So many callers could easily mean that someone has something like top pair, and could interpret your line to indicate you have a diamond. Not check-raising is a crime though. If you check this turn you MUST raise. I can't even fathom why you didn't.

The river is hard. Why such a big bet? What is your opponent thinking with this bet? What do they put you on and how do they expect you to react? Maybe they're just bad and made their hand. Certainly possible - there are plenty of people who are just bad. I'd be inclined to suspect that they think nobody has a hand and are running the bluff though. If I wasn't near the bubble or a money jump I'd call here.