5-10 Hand...Too Many Moves?

[Jeffage]

I'm playing in a tight 5-10 game online. I have Ac8c UTG and raise (partially bc the game is tight and I may get no callers beside a blind and partially bc I am mixing it up). Anyway, solid player in MP 3-bets, blinds fold, I call and we're headsup. Flop comes 10-3-3 with one club. I check, he bets, I call. This call is loose but I think I'm making it for a number of reasons. One, I have a running draw, two and 8 is prob good if he has overcards, but three...I may be able to play him off AK or AQ if he has that. Anyway, I call. Would you automatically fold this everytime in this spot? The turn is the King of clubs giving me the 4flush. I check-raise. He hesitates and now I know he doesn't have a king. He calls. I blank off on the river and fire in a desperation bet. Results to follow. Now, I don't usually play like this, but I mixed it up here. Would like to hear your comments and how often you would pull a move like this (checkraise semi-bluff, loose call heads up to try a move later, etc).

Jeff

[Binkus]

Im not to sure of even calling this hand let alone raising with it UTG but to mix up your play its a good hand for this. I would have dumped it on the flop though, your not gettin much for odds if you did make your runer runer flush and if you paired your eight you still dont know if it would be good, its fairly likely that he reraise you with a medium pair or AK , AQ unlikey. if he has AK your still the under dog and if he had a medium pair your already beat. one more point, Its good to mix up your play from time to time but make sure you understand the level of skill at the table. At many lower limit tables its common that they wont even be paying that much attention to how you play. (Dont know if this was the situation or not just something to think about)

[mobes]

I don't like the checkraise at all. I would have led out the turn with a bet hoping he folds. If he calls and the club or an A hits you are in great shape. If it doesn't then you can either bet the river or check it, I assume he had either QQ or JJ?

[Dynasty]

Im not to sure of even calling this hand let alone raising with it UTG

If you're going to play A8s UTG in a tight game, then raising with it is definitely the best option. In a tight game, AQo-A9 will to the pre-flop raise.

[rigoletto]

Just correcting:

AQo-A9 will fold to the pre-flop raise

[JTG51]

I think the flop call is questionable, but not terrible.

"He hesitates and now I know he doesn't have a king."

This is dangerous online. How do you know he hesitated because he doesn't have a K? Maybe he's playing two tables. Maybe he's watching TV. Maybe he didn't even hesitate and there was just a little lag in the connection.

I think it's very easy to get yourself in trouble with this kind of 'read' online. That's one of the big adjustments that need to be made between playing live and online.

[tewall]

I wouldn't think you have a flop call here. Against most of the hands he's likely to be holding (you described him as solid in a tight game) there's a good chance you'll improve to a hand that's already beaten. The one thing you have going for you is he is not likely to put you on your hand.

[Jeffage]

If he has a hand like JJ or QQ, I think a checkraise may be the only move to get him to fold it. If I bet, the weird stop and go may convince him (correctly in this case) that I have just picked up a club draw possibly. This could lead him to call down where a checkraise may get him to fold those hands. Not saying I'm right, just saying what went through my head in the half second at the time.

Jeff

[Jeffage]

You are correct when saying these assumptions are dangerous online. However, this hand was played on Pokerroom where you can only play one table at a time and by a player I know usually acts fast on his hand. I understand what you're saying though (he could be watching tv, on another site, etc)...just call it a gut feeling based on the timing of his call. It's hard to explain, but the more hands I play online, the more I start to notice this kinda thing. Maybe it was just a feeling that should have been dismissed.

Jeff

[Dr.Kimble]

JEFF..............you have much Fantasy /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

[Dr.Kimble]

How many People reraising with AQ AK a UTG Raiser ???

[StoneAge]

Haven't read other replies.
I don't personally like mixing it up with A8s utg. My favorite hand to occasionally raise utg in a tight game is QJs (or QJ once in a blue moon). If a A or K flops I can bluff the pot. If a Q or J flop I can bet for value. The problem with A8s is that it does not seem to me to have much deception value, people expect you to have an A in your hand when you raise utg (the only deception is that your kicker is smaller). If you are called preflop and an A comes, if you bet are you betting for value or bluffing? If I mix it up and get remixed, I usually just give it up, I would have folded on the flop. Was this on the pokerroom 5-10? I haven't played those for a while but they seem pretty tight from the flop %. I would say a better move than raising utg w/ A8s is to a looser table.

[tewall]

Rats! I'll have to get use to this software. This is the third time I'm posting this. Hope it works.

Sorry but I didn't understand your question.

My point was that most of the hands his opponent would hold would beat one or the other of the hands he is most likely to improve to (a pair of Aces with a weak kicker, or a pair of 8's -- or 2 pair counting the board). So half the time he improves he'll lose anyway. Not a good situation.

He said his plan was to force his opponent off his hand. If his opponent will let go enough hands, then a call would be fine.

[Jeffage]

My opponent called the river and showed QQ to win. Thanks for all responses.

Jeff

[Dynasty]

Against and UTG raiser, you should usually 3-bet with AK and fold AQ.