Leadership question...what to do?

[IrishHand]

I spoke today to a friend of mine from primary (flight school) and he presented me with a problem he very recently became aware of, and asked for my advice. For the first time in a while, I was at a complete loss.

First of all, I should explain for those who aren't familiar with the aviation community in the Navy that aviators always have a 'ground job'. Sadly, we aren't allowed to just fly a few hours each day and then go home. Around two thirds of ground jobs are department head positions, where you supervise 10-40 enlisteds in the performance of their duties, generally related to aircraft maintenance. At any rate, my friend is a department head of around 25 enlisteds - all male, coincidentally. My friend is a female, which should make no difference, but generally does.

Anyway...here's the situation: one of her better sailors, a petty officer 2nd class, came to her and said that he had a problem. He explained that many of his shipmates seemed to be behaving strangely around him. Specifically, he'd noticed that more than a few conversations came to an abrupt stop when he came into the room and he had no idea why. My friend - who'd only been in charge of this department for a few weeks - promised him she'd look into it and get back to him. This was yesterday.

She reviewed his file and discovered that he was a great sailor with nothing but positives. She noted that he'd had some financial problems when he returned from his last deployment, but that his wife had gotten a job and that it had been resolved and his performance hadn't suffered. She then had a few informal conversations with some of the other sailors who'd apparently been behaving strangely. This was what she discovered:

The sailor, Tom, had returned from their recent deployment three months ago to discover that his new wife (married only months before that deployment) had spent basically all his money on clothes, trips to visit friends and family, and trading in her car for a BMW. Anyway, she agreed to get a job. She had been an accountant in their hometown, but had quit her job when she moved to his base and hadn't felt the need to get a new job there. She told him she got a part-time job doing data entry and tax filings at night - which worked out well for the two of them, since he just switched to the night shift, which nobody generally wants. Well...that was what she'd told him. Turns out that a few of his buddies had happened upon his new bride at a top strip club in the area. (One quote - to the female lieutenant - was "I know I should have felt bad ma'am, but his wife is hella hot." My friend assures me that this is accurate - the wife is hot.) Needless to say, this development has been the pride of the department and the current topic of discussion.

So...how does my friend resolve this situation - both regarding Tom and his shipmates? On the one hand, it's ostensibly a personal family matter of a pseudo-sexual nature that she ideally would probably not want to involve herself in. On the other, it's pretty inappropriate for his shipmates to be tucking bucks in his new bride's black leather g-string.

[Clarkmeister]

I could be WAY off base here, but this is what my initial reaction is:

Your friend should contact the sailor's wife privately and explain that the situation has come to her attention. Your friend should then further explain that it is having a severely negative effect on "Tom"s performance and is affecting the department. Then she should encourage "Tom"s wife to inform "Tom" privately what was going on, and for the two of them to come to a private resolution. It should be made clear that the alternative is for Tom to find out from his peers and that could very well lead to the end of his Naval career for various reasons. But she needs to make it clear to Toms wife that one way or another he is going to find out. And one way is waaaaay better than the other.

Just sucks that its your friend has to get involved at all, but I think she does.

[marbles]

Have to disagree with ya, Clark. If the supervisor contacts the wife AND the wife discusses the matter with "Tom," there's a 99% chance the wife is going to mention the supervisor to Tom. The embarrassment alone ends his career with a resignation.

The only option (and I admit it's not a good one) is for the supervisor to talk to Tom directly. The supervisor then can manage the tone of the discussion, and reinforce how valuable he is to the Navy. There's a small chance that Tom can then put his house in order and move on. Who knows? Maybe he can live with a stripper wife if it's paying the bills...

[IrishHand]

Both of you raise interesting solutions. How would you recommend dealing with the co-workers? Their behavior isn't technically against regs, but it's awfully close (having sexual moments with another sailor's wife is awfully close to adultery).

[Clarkmeister]

Marbles,

You raise a reasonable point. However, since the whole issue came to light because Tom felt that something was up, it is safe to assume that he *will* know that both Irish's friend and all his department members knew about the situation. Therefore, I still think it is best he hears the news from his wife, at home, with some time to digest the information and get himself under control.

And the only person to get Toms wife to spill the beans is Irish's friend.

[HDPM]

I don't think it's close to adultery, except in the military context of prohibiting stuff that can break down discipline and morale. This is a pretty unique situation worthy of Dear Abby, but the whole military thing complicates it. I don't know the answer, except to say if the wife is stripping at a club where sailors are known to frequent, and the husband doesn't know, well, the relationship is already over. I would be very concerned about telling the guy because of the risk he will go off. OTOH, knowing and not telling poses the same risks if he finds out. I wonder what all the old Navy wives of Annapolis grads from 1900-1950 would think of this one? /forums/images/icons/grin.gif There is no good answer here I don't think.

[marbles]

"And the only person to get Toms wife to spill the beans is Irish's friend."
--You may well be right on that one. I dunno, the whole situation is pretty FUBAR to begin with; I seriously doubt that either of our solutions could save it.

[IrishHand]

Yeah...the military rules about things like adultery and fraternization are far broader than any normal civilian (or legal) interpretations. It doesn't really matter, but the club apparently isn't one of the military hot-spots. However, it's not reasonable to expect sailors to be in a place for months on end and not check out all the strip joints eventually.

I sort of came to the same overall conclusion that you, marbles and Clarkmeister have - that there is really no "nice" solution. I don't know nearly enough about Tom or his wife or their relationship to know if that's got a chance in hell of lasting. I dropped that from my thinking pretty early on simply because I don't think it's Jen's job to fix a situation of that nature. (Jen being my friend.)

My only concern is with her shop...I don't know how she can deal with it so that there aren't serious issues among the sailors. Obviously, Tom's going to find out sooner ot later, and that's going to have consequences at home. I just don't know how I'd deal with the Tom-everyone else dynamic, or the Tom-Jen dynamic (depending on how Tom finds out). Unfortunately, a number of solutions are impossible due to the nature of enlisted sailors. The fact that both Jen and most of the enlisteds knew before Tom will be brought to his attention sooner or later - they aren't real good at controlling gossip.

[MMMMMM]

"My friend - who'd only been in charge of this department for a few weeks - promised him she'd look into it and get back to him."

I think your friend should keep her word to Tom and tell him what's going on.

By the way, Tom's wife may still love him and may not be fooling around. Strippers have the potential to make big money and the couple was under a lot of financial pressure. She might just be doing it temporarily for that reason. Even though the situation is a mess it might be salvageable.

[Tom D]

You’re right, I think. The friend should get back to Tom like she said she would.

The marriage is over, though. Anything the friend does won’t make it any better or any worse than it is. It appears that the wife feels she is entitled to do whatever she wants to do without so much as a backward glance at her partner. He’s a 2nd class petty officer, and she’s buying BMWs. The worst part, of course, is her working as a stripper when there’s no way he wouldn’t find out about it in a rather brutal way. She’s about as concerned about her husband’s affections as a block of ice. She’s one callous woman, I’m afraid, and that isn’t going to change.

After the friend talks to the husband, she should sign his request for a transfer, which is sure to follow.

Tom D

[Clarkmeister]

"She's one callous woman"

True dat. But she's also Hell-a Hot.

[B-Man]

[B-Man]

Irish,

What did your friend decide to do? How did it work out? Or is your friend still mulling it over?

[Tom D]

I read the problem to my wife (after I posted), to get her sex's input. She listened, and told me matter-of-factly that it didn't happen. I think she's right. It reads like a leadership case-study problem. The tip-off is that the hapless husband was a Four-O sailor: They don't exist, except in Navy manuals.

Fess up, Irish. You're supposed to do your own homework.

Tom D

[IrishHand]

First of all, I feel the need to respond to this:
The tip-off is that the hapless husband was a Four-O sailor: They don't exist, except in Navy manuals.
That's b/s. There are a ton of sailors who are motivated, work hard and are generally completely squared away. I realize there are a lot of officers who'll dish out great fitreps to morons, but the majority of us take them seriously. If I write that a sailor is a great sailor and a valuable asset to the Navy, I'm not doing it because he's one of 'my guys' and I want to help him along as any officer would. I'm writing that because it's true. The Navy is no different than the civilian world - there are scumbags, and there are stars.

From what I hear (no, I've never met the guy), the sailor at issue here shows up on time, works hard, take initiative and is pleasant to be around. If you believe he doesn't or can't exist, you're mistaken.

As for the resolution...(keep in mind that the narration is completely 2nd-hand, and based basically on a couple of her e-mails).

I passed along Clarkmeister's ideas to Jen the day he posted them, since they were the only idea that she hadn't considered in one form or another. She liked it, but also appreciated some of the limitations discussed above. At any rate, her intention was to ponder the matter over the weekend (last weekend), since it was a long weekend, then sit down with Tom and her chief go with the straight-forward "this is what I've learned, how shall we deal with it" approach on Tuesday (yesterday). (For what it's worth, this wasn't really putting it off or avoiding the problem - she was flying most of Thursday and Friday.)

So, she gets the chief (with whom she'd already discussed the matter and told to shut up about it, although he knew about the stripping and figured it was a personal matter) and Tom and sits down. She tries to get into the subject gently by asking Tom how things are at home, etc. He then gets a bit embarassed and informs them (Jen and the chief) that he's had some problems recently, but that they were dealing with them. Of course, he was defensive since he didn't think his work had suffered (it hadn't) and didn't think it had anything to do with them. Jen then decides to open the floodgates and explains that he'd asked her to look into the recent wierdness at work and that she wanted to share some things with him. He interrupts and explains that he knew what the issue had been and had resolved it with his shipmates. By now, of course, Jen's come to the (correct) conclusion that she's behind in the times. She tells Tom to sit down and be quiet, and explains what she knows (wife blew his $$, felt badly, got job stripping and lied about it, buddies all frequent the joint, etc). He takes it surprisingly well, then explains somewhat haltingly that a couple of his buddies had told his wife on Friday night (fine citizens that they are - they decided to get yet another look at the wife and do some problem solving at the same time) that the LT knew about what she was doing and was going to tell Tom (guess on their part, but correct). She apparently freaks out ("what business does the Navy have in our private life, etc"), then leaves work. She then evidently decides, a la Clarkmeister, that it would be better for Tom to hear about it from her than his Lieutenant or someone else. She drops the bombshell, and they spend the weekend "dealing with it", whatever that means.

Jen offered the guy a couple days off, which he turned down. She explained how valuable he was to the shop (seconded by the chief, I'm sure), but told him she'd understand if he wanted a transfer and would do her best to expedite that if that was the route he chose. He said he didn't want to leave, but he's pretty pissed off at his buddies so who knows? She also explained the the Navy can get him free marriage counselling, and seizing on his hesitation (most people reject this out of hand), set up an appointment for him and his wife later this week, which he says they'll attend. She told him that the offer of a couple days off would stand for a couple weeks if he wanted it, and that was the end of the discussion.

And that is all I know about that.

On a related note, Jen made the mistake of mentioning the matter to her CO. Apparently, he's a good guy, but a bit clueless about people management. His suggestion? Get everyone in her department into the conference room and give a class on fraternization and adultery (we have a half-million "classes" like that that are premade and available online for officers to give to their sailors when they have to or are required to). Apparently, he figured that the situation might cause a lot of "sharing and caring". lol Truly, this is the new kinder, gentler Navy. Of course, now that she made the mistake of mentioning it to him, she's actually going to have to give this class. That's going to be a lot of fun given the situation. She's thinking of giving an alternate class - something like "Navy financial services" or "don't drink and drive".

[Tom D]

Thanks, I'll pass this along to my wife. Won't she be chagrinned. But first, I have to ask her about your Mars-Venus post to see if she has any thoughts about that one.

Tom D

p.s. Well...you didn't take my post in the good humor I intended. As I always tell people upfront, everthing I say is a joke. I thought you knew.

[IrishHand]

Now I know. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[Gary Teitelman]

When I was in the US Army, we didn't air our dirty laundry to the public. Officers that were competent would never violate "Loose lips, Sink ships".

Now the whole base knows to whom you are referring. Way to go.

[IrishHand]

Now the whole base knows to whom you are referring. Way to go.

Really? What base am I on? What base is she on? Good luck.