Too soft for Party 30-60?

[Kevin J]

First guy who has a vpip of 22% and a pre-flop raise of 5.7% (through 4700 hands), raises. I 3-bet with JJ, the bb calls, and the first guy caps it.

The flop is Qd,6c,4c. First guy bets, I call, bb raises, first guy 3-bets, I fold.

Does anyone suggest raising the flop? Had his pre-flop raise percentage been a 13% or so, I probably would have. But at 5.7% and capping pre-flop against two players, I thought calling was better. Would simply folding for the first bet be better still? Please advise. Thanks.

[The Truth]

gimme his total agression level, went to showdown % and fold on flop/turn/river percent and flop agression

makes it easier to tell what i would do /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[JihadOnTheRiver]

Since you didn't raise, good fold. If you do raise, you're prolly gonna fold anyways, as I don't think BB was going anywhere, but that's pretty results-oriented. I think it's close on the flop, but you're not too bad where you are IMO.

[Kevin J]

Flop aggression - 1.75

Turn aggression - 1.73

River aggression - 0.83

Flop fold - 18.45

Turn fold - 11.95

River fold - 12.28

W$SD - 53.25

Not sure what his went to showdown is, but his W$SD after raising the flop is 37.5%

[DcifrThs]

well i like the fold. i dont like the flop call. you're not closing any action and you accomplish nothing by calling in a capped pot where a raiser who must have been in some form of early position (first guy) opens and caps w/ a 5.7 pfr. the ONLY hands out there that you beat are TT/AK. and if thats the case you should raise the flop. and heads up its a different story. but there are people to act behind you who can have a queen, and the raiser can have KK/QQ/AQs a lot of the time here. you're much better off folding the flop to the first bet imo.

-Barron

[Roland19]

Raise the flop. Go from there. It changes the entire rest of the hand. Fold to a three bet, in that case you're drawing to two outs. Don't be a sally and let common sense be your guide. Fuckking fold, idiot.

[Senor Choppy]

I think calling down in these spots is -EV. This guy is a rock when it comes to hands he's raising. The only hand you're realistically beating is AK, and you're only a 3-1 favorite in that spot. If you're behind, you're a 9-1 dog, and I imagine you're behind a large majority of the time. Add in a 3rd player, and things don't look so hot.

If you're going to play, I don't see any reason to raise. You can almost positive both overcards are in the hand of the opponent here, and raising isn't going to get him to fold. Letting the 3rd guy in for one bet doesn't hurt. Cheap showdown is the way to go.

[Kevin J]

Thanks. I just hated folding so quickly. Yes, there's the big blind to worry about, but he already checked. I didn't feel either of them HAD to have a big pair (though I was worried about the first guy). At the same time, I didn't want to raise and get too tangled up in a hand with what might be two outs. I thought this was a rare spot where a call might've been just right. I could be wrong though. Thanks again.

[Kevin J]

Thanks Senor. So I gather you like folding first, calling 2nd, and you just don't like raising, is that correct? I think I agree. At least I didn't make the worst play.

[Kevin J]

If I raise the flop and it got 3-bet, I'd now be very close to getting good enough odds to try and turn a jack. I don't like raising and folding to a 3-bet.

[Kevin J]

Of course, I didn't post this hand because I would've lost to AA. The bb had A5 of clubs, and the first guy had 99. I folded the best hand.

I really don't want to be results orientated. I just wanted to know how some of you guys would've played it. I think the guy with 99 really played it well (at least after the flop). Because I just called the flop, he realized I might be weak. So he re-raises the bb (who he has position on), in order to drive me out of the hand.

Again, I think he played it well. I just wasn't winning this hand and I'm sure sure if there's anything I could've/should've done differently. This is what happens against aggressive players... You sometimes can't win pots you would've easily won against more passive players. Thanks for the responses.

[PennDisc]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course, I didn't post this hand because I would've lost to AA.
I folded the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wha??

[Kevin J]

In other words, if the hand played out and the first player showed something like AA, I'd have probably assumed I played it fine and wouldn't have thought any more about it.

[BlueBear]

You can't fold here for a mere small bet! The pot is big, it's just way way way to weak and it's an invitation for strong players to run all over you.

[Kevin J]

That's kinda what I thought. So do you prefer raising the flop? Or is calling ok in your opinion? Thanks.

[Senor Choppy]

This isn't a fold vs. a strong player, the opponent had a PFR of less than 6%. It's a rare fold to make and one that people wouldn't notice anyway.

[BlueBear]

Clarification: I was referring to the decision immediately after the very first single bet on the flop.