Tonight's Wpt event and Adam the magician

[Smoothcall]

Anybody who can make chips disapear that fast desreves to be called the magician. I'm not sure which hand he played worse the 55 against Michael(btw michael was a little insane on the hand as well) or the 33's against the other kids kq on q99 flop.

I missed the 1st hour and the first hand i saw was the 55's against 88's lol. I was like wtf? I mean its one thing to suspect you opponent to not have as strong a hand as he's representing, but is this the time to try and make a play on a q109 flop where even if he's not as strong as he's representing a board like that is hard to push someone off of. And both opponents overplayed these hands and were out of there minds a bit. That is a horrible board to try to play someone off a hand as there are so many hands he will be able to continue with. Any j in eithers hand, Ak, any one of the pairs out there. There is just way too much doubt of being able to play someone off this hand in limit holdem for either to be trying to play the other off. I admire boths instincts but there are much better times than this to put that much money in against each other. Especially when they are both the chip leaders and you have other short stacks out there. Adam with this hand then the other probably cost himself somewhere around 1 million dollars in cash by playing these 2 hands the way he did. Michael was lucky Adam had one of the specific hands that Adam could muck on the turn. Where most of the time even if your opponent is bluffing if he gave this much action on flop and bet turn even on a stone bluff would at least have Ak and not muck the turn and have 10 outs to beat 88's. Or worse and Adam could actually have a big hand and now you checkraise out of position and force yourself into a decision if you get reraised on the turn about whether to call with the idiot end of a gutshout or an 8. And if you call and miss now have to pay another bet on river because pot is to big. These boys were way out of control on this hand. The kid who went out 4th was playing the best poker from what i saw. Then the guy who came in 2nd.

[Smoothcall]

I forgot an A hit the turn in that hand with the 88's against 55's which makes both players far worse on the turn. As Michael checkraise almost can't work as even if he scares adam if adam has anything but a stone bluff he will continue as he would at least have straight draws at the ablsolute minimum. He was luck he had a hand that was unable to call there as most hands that gav that aciton of flop would not be able to throw away on turn checkraise. And we already know how badly adam overplayed the hand.No need to go into that again.

[SpineyFish]

This was the most interesting hand of the entire show (55 vs. 88). I think both players played the hand very well.

Adam made a huge play to try to take a big pot with the worst hand. Most people would fold 88 to the aggressiveness he showed on the flop. It's a credit to Michael that he either had the read or the stones to throw that check-raise on the turn.

You don't see many hands where neither player has hit the flop get that much action, but both of these guys had the aggressiveness to go after it. It's hands like these that make poker fun.

Unfortunately, for Adam, he ran up against a marginally better hand (with that board) that was willing to match his aggressiveness. Kudos to Michael, nice hand.

[Shakezula]

well, the younger guy wasn't a pro, so it seems likely that he exhibited a tell. the NC guy, michael, seemed to be thinking rather quickly, what with his quick glances, fast movements and mannerism---a psychological sign of quick thinking. perhaps he did have a tell on the guy. there wasnt enough tv coverage on the young guy to see if he was, but to keep charging into the kid with 8's when the board was showing higher cards, he must have. he had played so well, from what was shown, that it didnt seem likely that he was making a bad play from his POV. he raised quickly, reraised without hesitation. hard to think the kid wouldve folded any high cards with what was showing. draws were out there, if he wanted them. the kid was a fast player, somwhat LAG. who knows...

[MVicuna]

Hi,

I played with Michael for several hours durring that event. They did not pick 'action' hands to show. Every hand he was in was an action hand. He was constantly putting in 2-3 bets on the flop and 2-3 bets on the turn with draws.

Thankfully he didn't put any beats on me like he did at the final table, but he made me healthy enough to push me 2 pay levels deeper into the tournament.

So, I can't fault adam for thinking his 5's were best on the flop as there are MANY more hands Micheal plays that way that he's ahead of then he's behind of.

Thanks,
MarkV.

[Hold'me]

Smoothcall, I forget which WPT event final table were you at again?

[MVicuna]

Hi,

Actually, the quicker Micheal bets/raises the weaker his hand is. When he has a very strong hand, he's much slower in acting. There were none shown on the WPT broadcast, but he made the nut hands several times while I was playing with him and he was slow to act, as if contemplating if his hand, he'd cut/recut his chips then raise.

Many Many times he'd have a weak hand or a strong draw, he'd be beating you into the pot with reraises.

Later,
MarkV.

[lighterjobs]

[ QUOTE ]

This was the most interesting hand of the entire show (55 vs. 88). I think both players played the hand very well.


[/ QUOTE ]

really? I thought michael played it terribly. he raised 200k to 400k when there was over 2 million in the pot and four over cards! what can adam fold besides 22-77? unless he can read people ridiculously well, i thought he played the hand very recklessly and it looked like he wanted to give away his chips. i thought adam played well besides a few mistakes.

[mosta]

yeah but I went to college with the "hurri-kain".

[Smoothcall]

Oh ic. You have to have played a wpt event final table to post on this board. And to know what a correct decision is. So i assume you have otherwise you would look really foolish commemting on my lack of wpt final tables. Nobody can be that foolish right?

To make final tables in wpt events you have to play them. I i very rarely play big buy in events. Maybe one day. But whether i do or not doesn't mean i can't have an opinion on a poker hand played. But i'm sure you know this right? Otherwise who could ever give an opinion in this forum as the only person that posts in this section that has made a wpt final table is Barry Greenstein. I'm sure there are a couple that i'm forgetting but for the most part i'm correct wouldn't you say? But thanks for making yourself look foolish anyway.

By the way did you ever think about discussing the hands in this thread instead of insulting? We know you would never do that because we would expose your lack of knowledge on poker. Maybe you should concentrate more on educating yourself pokerwise by listening to people on this board rather than insulting us. Better to be a big man and just insult right? You da man!

[Rushmore]

I just finally got to this episode on my DVR, and must agree with you on the Magician guy (as you call him).

I'm sure an aggressive style is what got him there in the first place, but he really lost it at the final on several hands. He didn't seem able to calculate the risk/reward ration, and definitely had no brakes to speak of.

In limit tournaments especially, you really need to be able to figure out how many chips it's going to cost you to see the river, since you can't run your opponent off with a big overbet on the turn or river. He seemed to lack this skill, IMO.

And FWIW, no, I don't think one would need to have been at a final table himself in order to have a discussion on a public poker forum.

[t_petrosian]

My wife and I watched this show (and this hand) and couldn't believe our eyes. Both of these guys were playing like total donks, especially the magician. It was hilarious to see the guy piss off $2,200,000 in chips with 33 and 55 and a board replete with overcards.

I don't know about you guys, but it seems like limit poker is all about bravado, balls and bullsh*t testosterone, jamming pots with semi-hands. There's no real art to it as against these hyper-aggressive donks who don't mind spewing off a few hundred thousand ramming and jamming with 33 unimproved it is basically a card-catching contest. Give me nl anyday and call me "weak-tight," since I won't play this style of donk poker.

[Smoothcall]

It was evident they both knew each other to be somewhat maniacs. But was this the time to draw the line in the sand with your sword and say i'm the bigger man. And i will rebluff your rebluff of my original rebluff ect...

Wait til the baby stacks are out for you start clashing. Or at least on a board that can be bluffed with much more success. Like a paired board representing trips or somethting where it will be harder for your opponent to continue unless he has a hand. As it is harder to have draws because there is a pair out there(not 3 straight big cards like in the one they went to war on) to continue if he doesn't have a hand.

I think this hand may have put adam on tyilt causing him to not throw his hand away against the other guy with the 33's against the kq on the q99 board.

[freemont]

I thought this hand was played horribly, the check on the turn by Michael with the idea of checkraising seems borderline insane unless somehow he knows his opponent is bluffing and wants to get an extra bet, which well, if he has that kind of a read on things, he's my hero, but also check/calling and hoping he bets the river is just as effective and less risky...

Let's think about it for a second, after the ace falls what hands are going to bet that will fold to a checkraise outside of a complete bluff? If he has KK he'll likely check behind the scary ace and check/call the river, dido with JJ, KQ, QJ, JT or anyother hand that has a jack in it, (though no other jx seem to likely to 3 bet pf.) I don't seem him pushing Adam off AK, or any ace for that matter (just about all other potential pf 3 betting aces have made two pair, while AJ has straight outs.) So now how often does the checkraise here actually push someone off a hand that would have beaten you vs. how often the checkraise costs you two or more bets when you're way behind? It just seems like a really stupid plan in that spot as the vast majority of hands that someone bets there they aren't folding and you're WAY behind...

For what it is worth I played briefly with half of the final table. Hurricane Kain was the big stack at my bustout table and pretty much played any hand he could, especially if he could raise first in from mid to late position. Adam, I don't remember so much, but my buddy told me the first night he was playing 10-20 with us, he described him as fairly solid, but an annoying complainer, kind of fit the definition of half that table towards me... I was getting drunk and attempting to perfect my drunken laggy game, perhaps he picked up a thing or two from me as I was making a ton of hands and crushing the table /images/graemlins/wink.gif Finally the colonel was the one player I was somewhat shocked to see get as far as he did. He was a very nice gentleman, but talked throughout most hands, and seemed to me to give away a TON of information, through what he said. I played with him for a little while on day two and comment to my friends afterwards that I would have loved to been next to him the rest of the tournament, evidentally I was SO right cause he made about 990,000 more than me! Even at the final table he was talking a great deal...

[Smoothcall]

Hey Rushmore. Yeah i agree the aggression is what probably got him there, and that he didn't know when to take the foot off the gas pedal. He only had one gear. And his vehicle didn't have breaks.

[d1sterbd]

I was at the event as well. Paul Darden busted me on the bubble with an inside straight on the river. If I remember correctly, Adam was very short stacked with 11 or 12 people to go. As expected, there were a lot of people playing very aggressively. Erick Lindgren went from being first or second in chips to being out at #11 really quickly.

Paul Darden said in a Card Player article that Micheal is going to be really good. Since then, Micheal won a bracelet in a NL event at the WSOP.