What leak has cost you the most $$ in SnGs? [Archive]

Turk

06-15-2005, 10:10 PM

Can you elaborate a bit please?
Since it is pretty widely accepted around 2+2 that tight is correct strategy early. With late game being far more aggressive, and HU equally if not more so. I am interested to hear how & where you feel this is your biggest leak.

Freudian

06-15-2005, 10:14 PM

I was too tight early giving up opportunities to gain chips. This is of course a smaller leak than the big one, being too tight levels 4+/ITM/HU.

I do think one shouldn't underestimate the importance of playing good poker levels 1-3 though. If you go into level 4 with 75 more chips on average with tight instead of supertight strategy, it will definately have an impact on your ROI.

Nottom

06-15-2005, 10:17 PM

Making random donk plays I know are wrong way more often than any decent player should. (I suppose that would be called tilting)

11t

06-15-2005, 10:17 PM

Calling with AA and getting sucked out on. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

kyro

06-15-2005, 10:21 PM

Moving up. Ugh.

justin D

06-15-2005, 11:21 PM

Golf

TheNoodleMan

06-16-2005, 12:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Making random donk plays I know are wrong way more often than any decent player should. (I suppose that would be called tilting)

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, thats probably mine too. Every now and then I do something unbelievably stupid. Good news is that it is getting far less frequent.

YourFoxyGrandma

06-16-2005, 12:04 AM

MTTs.

Ogre

06-16-2005, 02:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
MTTs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't stay away from them. Even though I'm up on them.

Scuba Chuck

06-16-2005, 02:04 AM

Playing in hands from the blinds.

mistaken

06-16-2005, 02:25 AM

touche

Onaflag

06-16-2005, 02:30 AM

Corona.

Onaflag.......

johnnybeef

06-16-2005, 02:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I was too tight early giving up opportunities to gain chips. This is of course a smaller leak than the big one, being too tight levels 4+/ITM/HU.

I do think one shouldn't underestimate the importance of playing good poker levels 1-3 though. If you go into level 4 with 75 more chips on average with tight instead of supertight strategy, it will definately have an impact on your ROI.

[/ QUOTE ]

unless you know how to get those chips back later on /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Geordie Ramone

06-16-2005, 04:03 AM

Overplaying 77-TT on the early levels

DasLeben

06-16-2005, 04:12 AM

Being overaggressive in levels 4+ in low-buyin games. When I first started playing SNGs, I was far too passive. When I started learning the math behind them, I was hell-bent on taking every +EV opportunity, no matter how marginal. Well, considering that $11 players are apt to suddenly spite call with crap (usually better than my crap) if they they think you're bluffing, I was running somewhere around 35% ITM with a crap ROI.

Once I realized that I really needed to just chill at times, and sometimes pass up on +EV opportunities for image purposes, my ROI shot up. Also, my ITM climbed considerably.

Current leak being worked on? Heads-up issues.

EDIT: Forgot to add one: "Always play for first" was a huge leak that I've since plugged.

spentrent

06-16-2005, 05:07 AM

EDIT: Forgot to add one: "Always play for first" was a huge leak that I've since plugged.

Is that a really a leak or is it more of a variance monster? I've found that my long-term return makes up for the hellish swings. I'm having lotsa 4ths and lotsa 1sts.

spentrent

06-16-2005, 05:11 AM

My leak is playing too tight in the middle/late game when I'm in the middle of a craptacular week (or two) (or three). Which only compounds the problem.

A related problem is playing higher than my bankroll wants me to play.

Bigwig

06-16-2005, 05:19 AM

Two things:

1. Not pushing enough on or near the bubble.
2. Broken luckbox.

DasLeben

06-16-2005, 05:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: Forgot to add one: "Always play for first" was a huge leak that I've since plugged.

Is that a really a leak or is it more of a variance monster? I've found that my long-term return makes up for the hellish swings. I'm having lotsa 4ths and lotsa 1sts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, let me clarify. Of course you play for first as much as you can, but sometimes it's just not appropriate. Consider a hand such as this:

Buyin: $11s-$33s

Blinds 100/200

UTG: t200
You: t1200
SB: t4000
BB: t2600

UTG folds, you look down and see A/images/graemlins/spade.gifT/images/graemlins/heart.gif. BB has been reasonably tight, but SB has been prone to make loose calls.

While ATo is probably the best hand preflop here, the correct move is to fold. If you push and double up here, you have a legitimate run at first. However, UTG blinds off his whole stack next hand. Pushing this might be +cEV, but is definitely -$EV.

This is probably obvious to anyone that plays SNGs a lot, but I just wanted to give mention to this type of hand. This is a type of hand that requires you to concentrate on getting ITM first, instead of going for a win.

EDIT: Changed AJo to ATo for a more clear example. Also, added buyin level.

raptor517

06-16-2005, 05:30 AM

in a 55+ im still shoving this more than likely. its different when making a call, but pushing, ill do it almost all day. holla

DasLeben

06-16-2005, 05:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
in a 55+ im still shoving this more than likely. its different when making a call, but pushing, ill do it almost all day. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, I should have specified buyin. We're talking $11s-$33s full of donks. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

raptor517

06-16-2005, 05:36 AM

well, im not so sure then /images/graemlins/wink.gif i suppose if they are calling every 2, then its a fold. holla

jon462

06-16-2005, 06:08 AM

raising with AQs or AK, then making 125/150 continuation bet on missed flop into a field of 3-4 people... lol (sometimes it works!!)

I tend to overplay AQs in general early.. which is odd cuz i fold AJ and A10 like the plague..

johnnybeef

06-16-2005, 06:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
raising with AQs or AK, then making 125/150 continuation bet on missed flop into a field of 3-4 people... lol (sometimes it works!!)

I tend to overplay AQs in general early.. which is odd cuz i fold AJ and A10 like the plague..

[/ QUOTE ]

you have bigger ones than that /images/graemlins/wink.gif

raptor517

06-16-2005, 06:20 AM

biggest sng leak.. hmm.. honestly? playing above the roll, and being TOO agressive on the bubble. not so bad i guess, but can make swings pretty huge, especially 12 tabling. holla

Big Limpin'

06-16-2005, 08:03 AM

...coming home from bar. Fire up 4 tables to "wind down". Forget about them. Go to bed. Wake up. Log into account. "wow i thought i had more than that". Ohhhh yeeeaahhh. /images/graemlins/frown.gif /images/graemlins/mad.gif D'oh. Easiest way to drop 4 BI.

(also, i *wish* i could say i only did this once. sadly that is not the case.)

chisness

06-16-2005, 08:05 AM

that's a pretty bad one limpin

Degen

06-16-2005, 08:10 AM

being TOO aggressive on the bubble and raising crap in spite of the fact that my table image will demand people start calling me with all sorts of hands.

BigEndian

06-16-2005, 08:26 AM

I think pushing in this spot is goofy. Play for the money first, glory second.

Mine: Getting too arrogant and prideful and getting my money in the middle in crappy situations.

e.g. Early on in a SnG, raising an appropriate raise with JJ while playing tight. Getting raised with an all-in from another tight player and not mucking. Doesn't he understand I have Jacks?! It's a great hand! Bullshit. Let him win the small pot.

- Jim

keithb

06-16-2005, 09:04 AM

Getting sucked out by other players cards hitting when I am a favorite - AA over any other pair, pair over ace rag, etc.

Ixnert

06-16-2005, 09:53 AM

Overvaluing my folding equity and generally playing too aggressively on the bubble (and bubble + 1). Often has cost me the difference between a very likely first or second and stumbling into third or fourth.

revots33

06-16-2005, 09:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What has cost you the most?

[/ QUOTE ]

WSOP satellites

4T25Q85

06-16-2005, 10:43 AM

"What leak has cost you the most $$ in SnGs?"

Playing in anything but a SnG...i dont know why, but this tournament style works out extremely well for me. I cant play ring to save my life.

burningyen

06-16-2005, 10:56 AM

TV.

tminus

06-16-2005, 10:57 AM

- trying to steal from loose callers
- blowing my online profit at a casino

octaveshift

06-16-2005, 11:03 AM

Impatience.

jj_frap

06-16-2005, 11:05 AM

At $5? (Hey. I've been playing poker since February and started playing for money online this past week. I'm up from $100 to $180.49. I know it's nothing special, given the calibre of my opponents at the level I play, but at $5 it gives me a very comfy cushion if my luckbox goes South for a few tourneys.)

1. Overplaying AT late in the game. I've blown 3 chip leads because of this and finished 2nd - 3rd even though I had been outplaying everyone earlier on and hitting the odd card.

2. Playing middle PP too aggressively early in tourneys from early positin. I have a hard time playing set-it-or-forget poker with 88+.

3. Calling a calling station's reraise with the aforemention AT (He had been playing extremely loose, sloppy poker, but he wasn't much of a raiser). Flop cam T-rag-rag rainbow, and I ended up all-in at the flop, only to be staring down the barrel of QQ.

4. Going on tilt when I accumulate a comfortable chip lead, only to face a run of extremely rotten cards afterwards. (I once had close to 30 hands where the best I saw was Q9o. Uh...Yeah. Learning to avoid tilt in situations like that will require a couple years of disciplined poker.)

dfscott

06-16-2005, 11:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Playing in hands from the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

eMarkM

06-16-2005, 11:07 AM

Looking at my stats for the 55s I seem to finish in 3rd and 4th too often. I make it to the 4 player bubble 55% of the time, which I think is very good. But once there I should get ITM 75% of the time, but I only get there 73% of the time. When I'm in 3rd I should get to 1-2 2/3rds of the time, but I'm at 60%. Though I guess I make this up with the fact that once HU I win 57% of the time.

eMarkM

06-16-2005, 11:08 AM

Oh yeah. Wireless connection + laptop + HDTV = LEAK!

Moonsugar

06-16-2005, 11:11 AM

Actually, this has probably been my biggest leak lifetime. But I fixed it along time ago. This one is huge.

Bataglin

06-16-2005, 11:11 AM

"Unregister"

45suited

06-16-2005, 11:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I make it to the 4 player bubble 55% of the time, which I think is very good. But once there I should get ITM 75% of the time, but I only get there 73% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really think that you can call this a leak without more information. If you are getting to the bubble with less than 1/4 of the chips (on average) then making the money only 73% of the time should not be unexpected.

Perhaps your good play has allowed you to survive to the bubble more often than lesser players but some of these times you are inevitably shorter stacked.

J-Lo

06-16-2005, 12:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Looking at my stats for the 55s I seem to finish in 3rd and 4th too often. I make it to the 4 player bubble 55% of the time, which I think is very good. But once there I should get ITM 75% of the time, but I only get there 73% of the time. When I'm in 3rd I should get to 1-2 2/3rds of the time, but I'm at 60%. Though I guess I make this up with the fact that once HU I win 57% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm.... don't most winning players have this kind of breakdown of their finish distrib? You take percentage points away from the 75% of ITM, 66% for top 2, and it gets distributed into the 1st's (50%). Finishing in 4th and 3rd often means you are agressive in accumulating chips, which help you win when it gets HU. If that is a leak, then i need to work on my game, because my finish distrib is much flatter. 70% chance when 4 handed for ITM, 55% chance when 3 handed for HU, and 55% cheance when HU for 1st.

eMarkM

06-16-2005, 12:42 PM

Right, well that was all I could find when I looked at my stats /images/graemlins/wink.gif. That was pretty much the conclusion I came to, but I was wondering if anyone here disagreed. True, I almost never go out quietly on the bubble and usually go out with my pants down stealing with 84o and someone finally makes a bold call with K7o. So I'm either out of have a stack going into final three.

zipppy

06-16-2005, 12:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
MTTs.

[/ QUOTE ]

DonButtons

06-16-2005, 01:27 PM

Ugh, I use to have some good table selection skills, now its just make sure to get the best possible seat in the next possible table, not sure, if I even do that right.

Leaks, MTTs, even though there profitable, I just dont need to be playing them, but I love them. And why did I enter a step 5 the other day, sigh.

Wes ManTooth

06-16-2005, 01:34 PM

not having a 210% ROI.

VoraciousReader

06-16-2005, 01:44 PM

Getting too cute too early. My particular weakness has been bluffing some of my precious chips at too small a pot. I play at Stars, so I start with more, but still, when the blinds are tiny, I need to focus on risk/reward. (I now have a post-it on my monitor that says RISK vs REWARD.)

raptor517

06-16-2005, 03:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
- blowing my online profit at a casino

[/ QUOTE ]

ooooo, thats a good one, forgot about that leak. holla

pineapple888

06-16-2005, 03:33 PM

Me too. Calling too much on the bubble. Led to too many fourths. HUGE leak.

This forum has helped me fix that. Now give me your money /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Drizztdj

06-16-2005, 03:36 PM

Losing coin-flips and walking into a min-raise with AA trap

Blarg

06-16-2005, 03:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
well, im not so sure then /images/graemlins/wink.gif i suppose if they are calling every 2, then its a fold. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of guys with big stacks in the 11's are calling with anything just because of their stack, combined with overvaluing their hands. Like you'll get a call with any Jack, or Q3s (hey, it's suited!). So you're often facing an absurd number of showdowns where your hand has to not get outdrawn -- or else where you have to be the one doing the outdrawing, because pushing with crap is making you face lots of showdowns with your own garbage. It can just be a real showdown game. People don't respect your cards OR their own, and want to see what happens when the last card comes off the deck. Gambool!

Dr_Jeckyl_00

06-17-2005, 12:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"Always play for first" was a huge leak that I've since plugged.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying that we should always play for 1st, and if we are not than that is a leak?

adanthar

06-17-2005, 12:55 AM

Walking into 2+2'ers minraising or limping big pairs on the bubble or ITM has cost me big time Sklansky bucks lately (I keep sucking out...lol.)

Let this be my official warning post to myself: Stop Doing That You Dumbass.

DasLeben

06-17-2005, 03:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Always play for first" was a huge leak that I've since plugged.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying that we should always play for 1st, and if we are not than that is a leak?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm saying that while playing for first is something you try to do all the time, there are exceptions. I detailed this in an example in this thread.