arieh destroying $2000 PLO final table

[CCx]

been following the hand-for-hand on cardplayer, he's been non-stop from the beginning - ridiculously aggressive, and since they were 5 handed he's been betting at and winning 80% of the pots

now 3-handed and he has such an enormous chiplead NOT winning the bracelet would be criminal

(insert obligatory "he's a prick" "bust this motherfu*ker" "hope he falls off the face of the earth" comments)

regardless what you may think of him (i dont have a problem with him for the record), he's putting on an absolute clinic

[Stinglikeabee]

Yeah he's been doing well. I hope he wins.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah he's been doing well. I hope he wins.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously. He had a good chip lead at the start of the day and has been steamrolling everyone.

GL to him, he certainly has earned it.

[BlackAces]

"Hand 79 - Arieh has the button in seat 2, and before the cards are dealt, he blind raises to $25,000. Graham is now first to act, and he folds. Ferguson folds his cards as well, and Arieh collects the pot."

I love it.

[CCx]

Here are the official chip counts before heads-up play begins:

Josh Arieh - $878,000
Chris "Jesus" Ferguson - $339,000

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
"Hand 79 - Arieh has the button in seat 2, and before the cards are dealt, he blind raises to $25,000. Graham is now first to act, and he folds. Ferguson folds his cards as well, and Arieh collects the pot."

I love it.

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHA oh my

[RowdyZ]

Personally I am hoping that Jesus ( a true gentleman of the game) comesback and beat him. It would really take him down a peg or two to lose after such a huge chip lead. Arieh trys to post he is misunderstood and a victim of bad editing by ESPN but that was him making an ass of himself last year in the Main Event on several occasions and from what I have read in Cardplayer from this and an earlier tournament he is up to his same old tricks.

RZ

[Jordan Olsommer]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I am hoping that Jesus ( a true gentleman of the game) comesback and beat him. It would really take him down a peg or two to lose after such a huge chip lead. Arieh trys to post he is misunderstood and a victim of bad editing by ESPN but that was him making an ass of himself last year in the Main Event on several occasions and from what I have read in Cardplayer from this and an earlier tournament he is up to his same old tricks.

RZ

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know the guy, so I can't say whether he's a nice guy or not, but that can't be entirely due to an ESPN conspiracy - they can't edit in anything that didn't actually happen (they can edit in such a way as to give implications of things that didn't happen, but you can't edit someone saying "a**hole" - they either said it or they didn't).

Or if someone still thinks that ESPN was 100% responsible for making him look like a prick, think of it this way: if the producers went totally out of their way and made every effort to create a segment called "The Worst of Dan Harrington", do you honestly think it would be anywhere near as bad?

[splashthepot]

could you post the cardplayer link?

[CCx]

linky linky (http://cardplayer.com/poker-tournaments/event.php?id=2339&screen=logs)

[Hold'me]

Josh Arieh talks trash but thats his game. Seems like he's playing great poker in the PLO event and he certainly deserves to win a bracelet to shut up all of you haters! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

By the way, if you pay attention to the ESPN coverage of the 2004 WSOP, it's so easy to spot all the places they spliced moments together. It was such a joke.

[horne_dawg]

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-tournaments/event.php?id=2339&screen=logs

[RowdyZ]

[ QUOTE ]
Josh Arieh talks trash but thats his game. Seems like he's playing great poker in the PLO event and he certainly deserves to win a bracelet to shut up all of you haters! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

By the way, if you pay attention to the ESPN coverage of the 2004 WSOP, it's so easy to spot all the places they spliced moments together. It was such a joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

They did NOT Splice Arieh talking trash to Demetriou, or him running to his posse moaning about what a horrible play it was when Willaims beat him with check in dark pocket 5's hand and it sure didn't edit him giving Willaims a hug when he busted out telling him to bust this Mother F#cker talking about RAymer. Those are 3 examples off the top of my head, NO EDITING invovled just Arieh being a punk.

RZ

[CCx]

jesus has doubled up and is making a comeback

[Russ McGinley]

Bust this motherfu*ker.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
jesus has doubled up and is making a comeback

[/ QUOTE ]
Chris "Jesus" Ferguson - $785,000
Josh Arieh - $420,000
this is more than a comeback

[horne_dawg]

if you saw the WSOP final table with Raymer talking about the action, he saids the Josh was a nice guy and came off really bad on espn. Josh said what he said to Williams becuase he and Williams where friends, and he wanted to pump his boy up, try to give him some confendence to when it all.

[RowdyZ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jesus has doubled up and is making a comeback

[/ QUOTE ]
Chris "Jesus" Ferguson - $785,000
Josh Arieh - $420,000
this is more than a comeback

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh my if he loses this I can't wait to read his blog.

[CCx]

did i read somewhere that jesus has never lost a final table when its been heads up? he's like 6-0 or something in that situation - or am i thinking of someone else?

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
did i read somewhere that jesus has never lost a final table when its been heads up? he's like 6-0 or something in that situation - or am i thinking of someone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't he lose the final table of the heads-up championship?

[CCx]

could just pertain to MTT's...?

[RowdyZ]

[ QUOTE ]
did i read somewhere that jesus has never lost a final table when its been heads up? he's like 6-0 or something in that situation - or am i thinking of someone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

Arieh himself posted this on his blog about Fergueson being 6-0 headsup at the WSOP.

[BlackAces]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
did i read somewhere that jesus has never lost a final table when its been heads up? he's like 6-0 or something in that situation - or am i thinking of someone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

Arieh himself posted this on his blog about Fergueson being 6-0 headsup at the WSOP.

[/ QUOTE ]
Jesus lost to Barry Greenstein in the 2-7 championship last year.

[RowdyZ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
did i read somewhere that jesus has never lost a final table when its been heads up? he's like 6-0 or something in that situation - or am i thinking of someone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

Arieh himself posted this on his blog about Fergueson being 6-0 headsup at the WSOP.

[/ QUOTE ]
Jesus lost to Barry Greenstein in the 2-7 championship last year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't say it was correct just that is where he probably read it. Besides Chris only has 5 bracelets anyway so he couldn't be 6-0.

RZ

[CCx]

yep, that's where i read it, thanks for jogging my memory

[RowdyZ]

When headsup started Cardplayer gave chip counts as.

Chris "Jesus" Ferguson - $785,000
Josh Arieh - $420,000

At first break they gave the counts as.
Chris "Jesus" Ferguson - $795,000
Josh Arieh - $422,000

So how did they play all those hands and Chris chips went up 10,000 and Joshs went up 2,0000 as well...

Those were both counts given by the Tournament not just cardplayer.

RZ

[CCx]

Incorrect - when heads up started, the chip count was:

Josh Arieh - $878,000
Chris "Jesus" Ferguson - $339,000

As of cardplayer's last update, the chip count is now

Chris "Jesus" Ferguson - $700,000
Josh Arieh - $514,000

[Jordan Olsommer]

[ QUOTE ]

So how did they play all those hands and Chris chips went up 10,000 and Joshs went up 2,0000 as well...

[/ QUOTE ]

They're both very, very clever.

[RowdyZ]

[ QUOTE ]
Incorrect - when heads up started, the chip count was:

Josh Arieh - $878,000
Chris "Jesus" Ferguson - $339,000


[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry not the start but the first update.. You posted it yourself. When Chris took the chip lead.

From Cardplayer.

Date / Time: 2005-06-15 18:59:00
Title: Updated Chip Counts
Log: Tournament Director Johnny Grooms announces the following approximate chip counts:


Chris "Jesus" Ferguson - $785,000
Josh Arieh - $420,000

Then at break they found 12,000 more chips.

[Spook]

Areih back on top
http://www.pokerpages.com/blog/pokerpagesdan.php?itemid=521 seems to be a faster source.

[The Armchair]

Arieh wins

[valenzuela]

arieh wins, i never thought id see myself involve in this thread but oh well, i said it first

[Spook]

[ QUOTE ]
Arieh wins

[/ QUOTE ]

good stuff, looks like he played an absolutely great game.

[valenzuela]

/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[WallStTo5thSt]

geez. Was it a gracious win, or an "In your face! I'm the greatest" type of reaction?

[Stinglikeabee]

It's over.

[ClaytonN]

Well, this validates him to some extent as more of a legitimate tourney player, with his WSOP bracelt back a few years ago, last year's runner-up finish the the ME, the third place in the WPT event, and now another bracelet.

Bodog is gonna love the marketing they get on this guy when the series is over. You watch.

[-Skeme-]

Williams was runner up, not Arieh.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Bodog is gonna love the marketing they get on this guy when the series is over. You watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must say it was a very wise move of Bodog to pick up Arieh and Williams.

Now if they could just fix their damn software so it doesn't make the tables pop up in front of everything making it impossible to browse or talk on AIM while playing /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[-Skeme-]

Or fold my hand without my consent.

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
Williams was runner up, not Arieh.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am clearly out of my mind tonight. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Smoothcall]

Josh has talent for building a big stack and using without breaking himself. This is a quality alot of the top tourney players have. Not sdaying he is at thre top or not. But i mean that one specific quality is a big reason these guys do well. He is friends with people like daniel and eric l. and i bet they have discussed this stragey before. But not sure if he deserves top quality. But certainly a threat in a nl tourney to win. There was a hand again daniel on a wpt event where daniel bet like half his chips or more and josh tried to bluff him. Which looked like a very weak amateurish play. Which i was surprised someone who plays pretty good otherwise would make. Daniel was a bit in shock it looked as well.

[TXTiger]

[/ QUOTE ]

They did NOT Splice Arieh talking trash to Demetriou.

RZ

[/ QUOTE ]

This one might be less well known but I don't know how anyone who saw this could defend him. It was horrible. Basically berating Dem. play because he was mad at being outplayed himself. Sounded very much like a 3/6 suckout artist very proud of his pitiful suckout. The only way I see defending this is if you say table talk is part of his game and being a jerk gives him some sort of edge. The same way you dould defend Tony G (but not nearly to that extreme)

[Jinx230]

In last year's ME, he got lucky as hell on tons of hand to end up where he did. Not sure how he got his success in this event and others, but he hit 2 inside draws on monster pots in the ME to get his large leads

[CrazyN8]

[ QUOTE ]
Bust this motherfu*ker.

[/ QUOTE ]

[hesbala]

aRIEH WILL win th e mian event. You read it here first.

[Jurollo]

[ QUOTE ]
aRIEH WILL win th e mian event. You read it here first.

[/ QUOTE ]

You WILL learn how to type someday! Also Arieh doesn't really need to validate himself as a tourney player he has had 27 cashes in WSOP events in the past 3-4 years I believe.
~Justin

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
aRIEH WILL win th e mian event. You read it here first.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an exceptional contribution. Welcome to the Two Plus Two Forums!

[slickpoppa]

A Jew beats Jesus?!?!?!? /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[TheCroShow]

woot, go Josh Arieh! It's a shame people are so quick to judge him based on a few remote instances. Are we all perfect little angels? Have any of us ever slipped up in our lives and looked like a jerk? Were ESPN cameras there to capture those moments? Not likely.

I was fortunate enough to meet Josh Arieh in person at the LV Airport back in May and he was a total gentleman. If you read his journal, he was running late for his flight. I did not know that, but I stopped him and asked for his autograph. He stopped, signed my button and said "Look I'm really sorry, I would stay and talk but I'm really late for my flight, my apologies. Take care." And off he ran. My family got on the tram and there he was. He turned around and talked with my niece and asked her a bunch of questions. He chatted it up with my family and apologized again for being in a rush. Now my family roots for Arieh, and it's great he won another bracelet.

Anyway, you have to keep in mind he grew up as a pool hustler. Of course he is going to talk some trash, and that's ok. I also blame ESPN for some editing and of course Norman Chad. NC is a total xxxxhead. enough about that noise...congrats Arieh!

[Mike Cuneo]

[ QUOTE ]
A Jew beats Jesus?!?!?!? /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Slacker13]

Personally I think he is an ass but I will give him credit for his poker skills. That's my (insert obligatory).

[ismisus]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I think he is an ass but I will give him credit for his poker skills. That's my (insert obligatory).

[/ QUOTE ]

do you know him personally?

[dibbs]

haha I remember watching my friend play final table on a decent sized PLO tourney on stars, I think it was a 215 or something, and arieh was POUNDING on the table. absolutely steamrolled it, opening for pot every hand, everyone was giving him crap about how big his raise button was, he joked it was the only button he had. He won it, I remember emptyseat88 (fishman I think?) took second, my buddy busted around 7th trying to stand up to arieh. funny to watch though.

[Publos Nemesis]

[ QUOTE ]
A Jew beats Jesus?!?!?!? /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

nh sir.

[grass]

[ QUOTE ]
did i read somewhere that jesus has never lost a final table when its been heads up? he's like 6-0 or something in that situation - or am i thinking of someone else?

[/ QUOTE ]

that's john juanda. he lost one last yr though. 6-1, not bad.

[josh arieh]

LOL good one

[josh arieh]

inside draws??? what the fck were you watching pal????

[O71394658]

[ QUOTE ]
inside draws??? what the fck were you watching pal????

[/ QUOTE ]

There was the Arieh 10-7 hand that he won with an inside straight draw.

[grass]

[ QUOTE ]
inside draws??? what the fck were you watching pal????

[/ QUOTE ]

josh, you don't post at fcp anymore? they love you over there.

[BlackAces]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
inside draws??? what the fck were you watching pal????

[/ QUOTE ]

There was the Arieh 10-7 hand that he won with an inside straight draw.

[/ QUOTE ]
If that was the hand where Josh knocked out Van Nguyen, he had a double belly-buster.

I found it funny that you referred to Josh in the third person when replying to him, though. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Jinx230]

Last year vs. Harry Demetriou. There was an all-in called and when the cards were flipped up, there was an inside straight draw that was hit.

If I am mistaken, then I am, but I think that's the case.

In terms of calling two of these, I stand corrected, one of the inside draws I was referring to was open-ended - I botched that one.

[BlackAces]

[ QUOTE ]
Last year vs. Harry Demetriou. There was an all-in called and when the cards were flipped up, there was an inside straight draw that was hit.

If I am mistaken, then I am, but I think that's the case.

In terms of calling two of these, I stand corrected, one of the inside draws I was referring to was open-ended - I botched that one.

[/ QUOTE ]
He had a gutshot straight flush draw against Demetriou.

[Jinx230]

Then I must be corrected on that one as well.

Look, point being, this tourney or any other tourney is not gonna legitimize this guy. Im sure he's a good player to be in a good amount of them. I have just seen a variety of moves he made that worked out in his favor, in big pots, against terrible odds.

In terms of "that's just what you see on ESPN", well of course it's just what I see on ESPN!! I don't have the hole card camera for his other games, so I have to judge what I see.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
I have just seen a variety of moves he made that worked out in his favor, in big pots, against terrible odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you can't seem to accurately remember any of these pots you are talking about, it sounds to me more like someone that just didn't like him and wants to think that he is a bad poker player. Thing is... he isn't.

[Jinx230]

I made a mistake about those draws. But he still hit monster draws with 2 cards to come in one situation, and another with 1.

As for not liking him, I don't even know him.
Look my whole point here: He is good to have appeared in this many events and all, but my only view of what he has done is from that ME, and lady luck was pretty nice to him.

[transmitt]

That was Juanda before the RV guy beat him last year.

[freekobe]

[ QUOTE ]
I made a mistake about those draws. But he still hit monster draws with 2 cards to come in one situation, and another with 1.

As for not liking him, I don't even know him.
Look my whole point here: He is good to have appeared in this many events and all, but my only view of what he has done is from that ME, and lady luck was pretty nice to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

You still don't get it. What is Arieh supposed to do - only win hands where he has a better hand preflop? Of course he got lucky sometimes. Everyone gets lucky to get to a final table. Plain and simple.

Josh has proven himself over the last 5-10 yrs to be an extremely solid professional poker player. His second bracelet only confirms what many of us already knew.

[JTrout]

[ QUOTE ]
woot, go Josh Arieh! It's a shame people are so quick to judge him based on a few remote instances. Are we all perfect little angels? Have any of us ever slipped up in our lives and looked like a jerk? Were ESPN cameras there to capture those moments? Not likely.

I was fortunate enough to meet Josh Arieh in person at the LV Airport back in May and he was a total gentleman. If you read his journal, he was running late for his flight. I did not know that, but I stopped him and asked for his autograph. He stopped, signed my button and said "Look I'm really sorry, I would stay and talk but I'm really late for my flight, my apologies. Take care." And off he ran. My family got on the tram and there he was. He turned around and talked with my niece and asked her a bunch of questions. He chatted it up with my family and apologized again for being in a rush. Now my family roots for Arieh, and it's great he won another bracelet.

Anyway, you have to keep in mind he grew up as a pool hustler. Of course he is going to talk some trash, and that's ok. I also blame ESPN for some editing and of course Norman Chad. NC is a total xxxxhead. enough about that noise...congrats Arieh!

[/ QUOTE ]

I know a guy that thinks O.J. is innocent because he shook his hand and he seemed like a nice guy.

[blockafor]

[ QUOTE ]
haha I remember watching my friend play final table on a decent sized PLO tourney on stars, I think it was a 215 or something, and arieh was POUNDING on the table. absolutely steamrolled it, opening for pot every hand, everyone was giving him crap about how big his raise button was, he joked it was the only button he had. He won it, I remember emptyseat88 (fishman I think?) took second, my buddy busted around 7th trying to stand up to arieh. funny to watch though.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's Arieh's handle on Stars?

[Easy E]

it seems as if everyone was playing like they were little girls against Josh. Most of the entries read as either

Josh bets/raises, all fold

or

Everyone keeps limping to Josh, allowing him to catch a winner.


I'd love to see this heads-up match on ESPN. Chris seemed a little tentative with some of the hands, having to catch a river pair when checked through to take down the pot holding AJ and two other cards.

Nicely done by Josh, but he had a lot of help it seems. I wonder what Jesus is saying to himself about that tournament now?

[dibbs]

razorbax or something along those lines

[Python49]

Lol jinx what in the devil are you talking about? That exchange went something like...

Jinx: Josh isnt a good player!
Others: He's placed in alot of tournies over the past 5-10 years, he's proven himself.
Jinx: He gets lucky all the time! Look at the ME! He hit miracle draws!
Others: Straight flush draws? Open ended straight draws?
Jinx: Oh.... well... i still dont think he's good, he gets lucky all the time!
Others: What? He didnt hit any miracle draws and everyone needs luck anyway to get far in one of these.
Jinx: uhh... uhh... ok well... he's still not that good!

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
Then at break they found 12,000 more chips.


[/ QUOTE ]

Probably found 'em laying around Men the Master's room after check-out.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
Lol jinx what in the devil are you talking about? That exchange went something like...

Jinx: Josh isnt a good player!
Others: He's placed in alot of tournies over the past 5-10 years, he's proven himself.
Jinx: He gets lucky all the time! Look at the ME! He hit miracle draws!
Others: Straight flush draws? Open ended straight draws?
Jinx: Oh.... well... i still dont think he's good, he gets lucky all the time!
Others: What? He didnt hit any miracle draws and everyone needs luck anyway to get far in one of these.
Jinx: uhh... uhh... ok well... he's still not that good!

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually he did hit a miracle 2 outer when he was all-in early on. That doesn't mean he's a bad player, but let's get the record straight.

[burningyen]

I think Jinx is obviously way off-base on Josh's abilities, but IIRC there was one hand during last year's WSOP where Josh check-called Matt Dean's 200k bet (the pot was about 500k, I think) with A2 on a board of K45 and caught a 3 on the turn. Matt had no part of the board, tried a big bluff raise on the turn and folded to Josh's reraise.

[Russ McGinley]

Dean actually had A5 there, so he had 2PTK and Josh called for a 4-outer and hit it.

[burningyen]

I stand corrected.

[bones]

I'm willing to bet that he didnt call just in hopes of hitting a 3.

[CrazyN8]

I still don't care for him.

[Army Eye]

[ QUOTE ]
that's john juanda. he lost one last yr though. 6-1, not bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesn't sound right. Juanda has three bracelets. If we're talking not just WSOP tournaments, but any tournaments, Juanda can't have won only six in his life.

I don't think the stat as given can really be applied to anybody.

Amarillo Slim did have a long run of never being beaten heads-up at the WSOP. Ivey did beat him eventually. But hey he was an old man at that point!

[freekobe]

[ QUOTE ]
Dean actually had A5 there, so he had 2PTK and Josh called for a 4-outer and hit it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is such a gross misstatement of what Josh was likely thinking that it's scary you have this many posts.

If you think Josh was calling trying to hit a 3, you are NUTS.

My guess is that Josh was calling in this spot in order to bluff on the turn or river. He sensed weakness, correctly, and felt like he could take the hand away later. This is a common move for top players and one that Josh was likely employing here.

Hitting the three was icing on the cake and allowed him to take the hand without needing to bluff. Rest assured, he did not call off 200K trying to hit a 3.

[ClaytonN]

Russ is just here for the pithy comments and getting raped on live at the bike. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I kid, I kid...

[Russ McGinley]

Thanks for your "guess". Free Kobe!

[jeffraider]

YES!!! GO JOSH!

[beset7]

I hate to break it to all the Ferguson fans but what I've seen from previous tournaments this is by far his worst game and I would have been surprised to see him win.

[TXTiger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Last year vs. Harry Demetriou. There was an all-in called and when the cards were flipped up, there was an inside straight draw that was hit.

If I am mistaken, then I am, but I think that's the case.

In terms of calling two of these, I stand corrected, one of the inside draws I was referring to was open-ended - I botched that one.

[/ QUOTE ]
He had a gutshot straight flush draw against Demetriou.

[/ QUOTE ]

And acted like a jerk to Dem. when he cought his card on the river.

[ QUOTE ]
You still don't get it. What is Arieh supposed to do - only win hands where he has a better hand preflop? Of course he got lucky sometimes. Everyone gets lucky to get to a final table. Plain and simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe win with class. I guess it's not like it's required though. I don't know his record exactly but I'm not sure how anyone could question his talent as a tourny player.

[TheCroShow]

win with class? are you Norman Chad's #1 fanboi?

[Drac]

Arieh acts like an ass. He did it at the WSOP last year and the US poker championship. He's done it again this year at the WSOP according to Cardplayer. Can he play? Yep. Can Hellmuth play? Yep. Are they both a holes? Yep.

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
win with class? are you Norman Chad's #1 fanboi?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've often wondered if there's some 'director's cut' version of the 2004 WSOP where Norman Chad goes on an unedited three-minute drunken rant about how much he hates Arieh, complete with anti-Semitic slurs. "This guy's nose is more crooked than my fourth ex-wife's lawyer!" or some such.

[dlk9s]

[ QUOTE ]
geez. Was it a gracious win, or an "In your face! I'm the greatest" type of reaction?

[/ QUOTE ]

It was gracious. In the post-game interview, he talked about how awesome Ferguson is and that Ferguson "...put on a clinic today."

Ferguson actually played very well. It was just hard to play back at Arieh's aggressiveness once Arieh got the chip lead.

[TXTiger]

[ QUOTE ]
win with class? are you Norman Chad's #1 fanboi?

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew that the idea that you can have class, or even be an all around great guy, would be too much for someone here to comprehend. Maybe even several someones. Like I said it's not required.