Can this hand be considered a bad beat?

[r3vbr]

Ok this guy is a regular at my table and I know he'd reraise it with an ace on the flop cause he doesnt slowplay much. My read was that he had some pocketpair or a flush draw. Either way, I think by the way this hand was played by me, there was NO WAY he could have called my river bet unless he was on serious tilt. The guy fell in love with his cards and could not let go, I would have played exactly the same with A9 AT AJ AQ AK etc etc...
Your thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG ($564.30)
Hero ($394)
SB ($330.20)
BB ($380.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $12</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $8.

Flop: ($26) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $16</font>, BB calls $16.

Turn: ($58) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $40</font>, BB calls $40.

River: ($138) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $60</font>, BB calls $60.

Final Pot: $258

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
BB has Kh Kc (one pair, kings).
Hero has 2s 2c (one pair, twos).
Outcome: BB wins $258. </font>

[etizzle]

go 135 on the river and its your pot.

He cant have a big hand the way he played it.

[DoomSlice]

Looks like you're just spewing on the river.

[NLfool]

it's great that you've got the heart for a 3 barrel bluff but I think the turn is so draw heavy that when in position I'd rather bet more on the turn and check on the river.

Or since it's goes call call on a board with 2 flush draws, and many straight draws (especially when you describe him as a player not to slow play) It's clear as day he doesn't have a hand that can call too much on the river you really should have put in a hefty bet on the river

[r3vbr]

I didnt want it to look like a bluff!
I wanted it to look like I simply had an ACE
If i bet 120 It would look I had a set or something like that.

According to my read, all I needed to do was to make non-ace hands fold, do you understand my reasoning?

[iceman5]

How can that be a bad beat? He had the best hand the whole time.

Where I come from thats called a calling station. Surely youve seen him call people down like this before? And probaby lose most of them?

[r3vbr]

No I think this was a one-time event. Maybe the guy had a KK-fetish or something. He married his had i mean....

hey, I didnt see him do this kind of stuff before, he seemed solid, regular, maybe breakeven player.

[NLfool]

[ QUOTE ]


hey, I didnt see him do this kind of stuff before, he seemed solid, regular, maybe breakeven player.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's the perfect kind that can't call a big bet on the end. But I really tend to overbet when I hit my draws so I usually do this on bluffs too. Even if it looks like a bluff it's still a very hard to make a large call for most "regular" players

[r3vbr]

why risk 130$ when I can obtain the same result (maybe even a better result) with 60$

it's very hard to interpret a 60$ bet as a bluff. So looking back at my decision I like it very much.

I feel there was no way that call could have been made.

[Komodo]

Can anyone tell why this bluff didnt work?
Hero has represented an ace from the beginning to the end.

[The_Bends]

Well I can only speak for myself but I've I'd have got to the river then I'd probably call the $60 but there is no way I'd call a full pot bet. Anyway, maybe you need to rethink the way you play this guy. Maybe your read is right and you just got the 1/100 times he decides not to fold but perhaps he's more of a calling station than you think. If he's not one to slowplay as you say then how come he's flat called PF with KK? Also while its obvious in retrospect that he played his KK badly how could you possibly know what he had or that your bets would be enought to blow him off it? Strikes me you're being results oriented and are simply venting because one of your moves didn't work.

[AZK]

Yeah because villain is a calling station.

[mcb]

[ QUOTE ]
why risk 130$ when I can obtain the same result (maybe even a better result) with 60$

it's very hard to interpret a 60$ bet as a bluff. So looking back at my decision I like it very much.

I feel there was no way that call could have been made.

[/ QUOTE ]
Obviously the other player felt otherwise. I would have called for less than half the pot with KK, if for no other reason than to look you up.

[augie00]

Is this a joke post? Your opponent saw right through you. Maybe you've given away some info on previous hands that says you wouldn't play an ace like that.

[r3vbr]

This post is no joke, maybe I am being results oriented, but I certainly knew that he wouldnt call all the way like that with a monster like a set beause of the draws.

He clearly made either a pair (not good enough to raise) or a draw on the flop, and after the turn call I felt like firing a 3rd round cause I didnt feel strength in him at all.

Hey, you telling me that HE saw right threw me? what hands could he put me on, that would raise preflop, bet like that, and that he would beat?

He would have to think i had RAGS, and be fairly certain about his read, to call like he did. And Im no loose player, I played VP$IP 24% and it was six-max, thats kinda tight.

[r3vbr]

I mean, MAYBE he's much better than me and he "saw right through me", but MAYBE, I'm much better than he is, and I saw right though HIM, and he was on tilt and made a bad play.

I think the 2nd alternative is more likely since im crushing the NL400 tables the last months, and he's probably breakeven at best.

[boedeker]

no mayo? this blows.


on every street.

[Mike Cuneo]

Can you be considered an idiot? (Yes.) How can 22 losing to KK be a bad beat? I'm really confused I guess 22 is supposed to win now vs KK. Although the BB is a moron for not reraising PF. Just like you're a moron for asking if 22 LOSING TO KK is a bad beat!! Read it again. 22 LOSING TO KK! Is it a bad beat? Oh damn, my 72o just lost to aces!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BAD BEAT!!! LOL!!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[thabadguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone tell why this bluff didnt work?
Hero has represented an ace from the beginning to the end.

[/ QUOTE ]
A lotta bad players get married to their overpairs and call down all the way, its not uncommon at all. I lost a huge pot to a dousche who called me all the way down with QQ , on an AKxxx board.

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]
why risk 130$ when I can obtain the same result (maybe even a better result) with 60$


[/ QUOTE ]

What "better" result? Are you hoping to get called by King-high? I doubt it.

You seem pretty convinced that your river bet was perfect but I think the fact is that you were absolutely begging to get looked up, there. If you actually value bet your Ace for $60 on the river, why do you do it? So worse hands will call you, which is exactly what happened except that you didn't hold up your end of the deal by having an Ace.

SpaceAce

[Komodo]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar till:</font><hr />
Can you be considered an idiot? (Yes.) How can 22 losing to KK be a bad beat? I'm really confused I guess 22 is supposed to win now vs KK. Although the BB is a moron for not reraising PF. Just like you're a moron for asking if 22 LOSING TO KK is a bad beat!! Read it again. 22 LOSING TO KK! Is it a bad beat? Oh damn, my 72o just lost to aces!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BAD BEAT!!! LOL!!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that hero got 22 is pretty irrelevant here.

[r3vbr]

Yes I was "playing the player" after the flop.. the fact is my read was right, but I've overestimated his solidness.

And what you don't realize is that sometimes, a small bet will be called LESS often than a very-large bet wich looks like a bluff.

The problem is, I was reasoning at a level 5 and he was at a level 1.. but I thought he was at least at a level 3.

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[108suited]

"
I wanted it to look like I simply had an ACE
If i bet 120 It would look I had a set or something like that.

According to my read, all I needed to do was to make non-ace hands fold, do you understand my reasoning?"

That part of it makes sense. But the math of the problem says that he is getting great odds to call your river bet. After calling the turn and the flop, his odds are too good to fold kings for 60.00 more.

[108suited]

"Can anyone tell why this bluff didnt work?
Hero has represented an ace from the beginning to the end. "

Middle pair isn't always a bad hand heads up after the flop. The hero was offering the villain decent pot odds to call. There were several possible draws that hero could possibly have to further help villain rationalize a call on all streets.

[MikeL05]

A) You clearly posted with the intent of having people pat you on the back and say "tough beat, man" and are pissy now because many people are making pretty solid arguments against your play.

B) You are being completely results-oriented. If you weren't, you wouldn't have posted at all. You're quite convinced your play was perfect; had it worked, you wouldn't have posted your "bad beat" here. But since it failed, you did decide to post. Seems kind of results-oriented to me.

C) SpaceAce made about the best point possible here. You played this like a medium-strong Ace, far as I can tell. And you got precisely what a medium-strong Ace would want here. The river bet actually looks a bit timid to me, like you're deciding your kicker is no good and want to make a blocking bet.

D) Saying you'd play the same way with A9-AK is sort of moot, because apparently you'd play the same way with 22. What else would you play this the same way with? And note, the more hands you add to this list, the more correct it is for the player with KK to call you down.

E) I don't think a guy with KK is necessarily going to put you on an A when you raise on the button like that. He could easily put you on KT, QT, or even some kind of 98s-type hand. In which case, your river bet again looks like a blocking bet that's giving him 3-1.