Aussie Champs Hand

[DMR]

2nd tournemant of the Australian Champs - $440 Pot Limit Holdem 130+ runners.

About the 3rd level, blinds at 25/50 80% field remaining all players in this hand have average stack or above (i.e. around 2000).

I’m UTG with 78s, I’m not the worlds greatest limper but we’re still in the stage of the tourney where there are many unraised pots, so I decide to limp to encourage this.

Unfortunately Tony a local player raises 200 in the next+1 seat. Tony can be a bit eratic but (unlike him) he hasn’t played a hand for the last 30 minutes. Carlo Citrone a well known English player cold calls in the cut-off seat and a crazy out of towner calls on the button (this guy has been calling raises in late position and trapping people when he catches two pair etc with cards like Q4o – I’m not too sure whether he’s an idiot or just a tricky pot limit player). With 4 players now in the pot I also call the raise and four of us see the flop of :

772 (rainbow)

I check, figuring Tony will bet and I can check-raise. Well Tony does bet, about 600 but both the late position players also cold call the raise.

Now what’s my move? Results posted separately…

[Moose]

Remember that both those players could be calling suspecting a bluff, and thinking that they will fold if bet into on 4th street, but if checked to them, they will represent slow-playing a 7.

The funny guy on the button who will call with anything and try to trap people with 2 pair, he's your biggest threat. He could have cold-called that raise with just about anything, such as A7, etc.

Having said that, it IS your dream flop, and with only 1 other 7 that can hurt you, shove it all in and hope the other two were lining the first guy up for a re-steal on 4th street with over-cards or overpair.

M.

[sam h]

as much as this is a scary situation, its also a tremendous opportunity. you could be in trouble against a bigger seven or 22 but the other players could easily have medium pocket pairs, a worse seven, or just think tony has unpaired big cards.

the important thing is that when you are ahead you get paid off, which is why you should call the raise and check the turn. if tony checks and one of the other players holding 88 or something bets, then you can move in. but if you move in now, the only hand that you beat that will call is a worse seven. in addition, if a big card hits, tony bets out strong representing two pair top kicker and one of the other players moves on him representing at least trips, then maybe - maybe - you can get away from the hand. the only way letting everybody see the turn cheaply will kill you is if somebody´s pair makes trips and thats a risk worth taking.

[ohkanada]

I certainly wouldn't limp with 87s UTG.

Tough hand. Worst case scenarios on the hands are the cutoff having 22 and the button having A7s.

I can't see the cutoff having a 7. With 22, he may smoothcall and try to trap more callers. If the button has a 7, would he just smoothcall, or with only one more limper would he raise to take a very healthy pot and not give overpairs a shot to hit their 2 outers?

I am struggling deciding what the cutoff would coldcall the pre-flop raise and coldcall the flop bet. It is possible a medium pair 88-JJ could be played like that. With a hand like 33-66, would he call the flop bet? With a big pair, he likely would re-raise preflop. With big cards, he may have re-raised preflop and folded the flop.

This seems to be a hand where I would want to be watching for signs from the other players. So you now have 3 options. Raising all-in, calling or folding. I can see doing all 3. Folding seems playing scared but it may well be correct. Just calling doesn't likely seem to be correct. Are you going to wait until the turn to decide to fold? The pot will be so large that if you just call the flop, you almost need to call the turn since someone might make a play at the pot.

So I guess I vote for all-in but I am not confident on this one. I suspect being a weenie and folding is correct /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Ken Poklitar

[Bubmack]

Not sure how you can fold!

Somewhere around 2675 in pot giving you odds of 4.5 - 1. I think it is easy to see that your odds of having and maintaining the best hand is far better than 4.5-1. At worst you are even money. So I think you are going all the way with this one, so try to extract as many dollars out of the group as possible, in case you are in fact the best hand. So I would flat call the flop and check rasie the turn. That may be a little loose, but its still early in the tourney and I'm not going to play it scared.

Bubs

[ohkanada]

I did vote for all-in:) The reason I mentioned fold is probably correct is the 2 coldcallers worry me and I can't find too many hands for them to commit 30% of their stack on a flop with no draws.

I don't think the pot odds are relevant in the flop decision. By calling you are committing yourself to the pot. You only have 1200 left if you call so you are unlikely to fold the turn.

The flop decision should be based on putting players to hands and deciding. If the coldcallers do not likely have a better 7 or 22, then go all-in or call. I like all-in because I think overpairs will still call because the enormous pot and UTG does not normally have a 7 although 22 is possible.

Ken Poklitar

[sdplayerb]

I'd push in.
There may be an overpair and I'm going to make them pay to try to hit it. There is enough in there that I'm willing to just take that much and don't want anything odd to happen.

As for fears of A7. If you are going to be scared at this point, you should not have put yourself in this situation in the first place. This is a dream flop, what more can you really ask for? Were you hoping to flop a straight or a flush (of course those could be beaten as well).

I would not have called the preflop raise also. 87s is much strong in limit than no limit. 10% of your stack where you have only a so-so draw is a loser in the long run and you can get into trouble such as this potential situation.

SD

[DMR]

Thanks for the great responses, I might try to post some more hands from the tournemant over the next week or so.

I think my options are to raise or fold. I don't like the call in this situation. If I'm ahead now with 3 more calls I might only be about a 60% favourite to win the hand by the river, I'd rather raise all-in and try to knock some players out and take this substantial pot now.

As it turned out, I felt some thing 'stank' here at this early stage of the tourney, as I mentioned Tony hand't played a hand for about half an hour and both of these out of town players don't know how he plays, they would mark him as a 'rock'. So when a rock raises preflop and bets close to the pot into two players you need a decent hand to cold call. If Carlo or the button had a big pair they'd surely re-raise? I felt one of them had a seven (esp the button) and if they did they'd surely have me outkicked (probably A7s) - so I quietly slipped my cards into the muck!

Tony checked the turn and both the cut-off and button also checked. Tony checked the river and Carlo bet 900, the button folded Tony thought for a while and called the bet, Carlo showed 22 for a flopped full!

So "this time" I made the right play but given your responses maybe my play was a bit hasty.

btw: regarding the 87s UTG play, this is kind of uncharactistic of me but I've been such a rock in recent years I've been trying to loosen up in the early stages to mix up my game. The initial limp was probably too loose, but I don't have a problem gambling 10% of my stack early once or twice per tourney if I can try to hit a hand or make a big semi-bluff. I certainly have a very tight image with the local players.

[ohkanada]

"So "this time" I made the right play but given your responses maybe my play was a bit hasty."

But you made it based on the information you saw and you were correct. You had oodles of information that us responders don't have. Very nice laydown.

Ken Poklitar