To agressive or is this the correct turn / river play

[cfjr2]

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO calls, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: (15 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

[aK13]

I fold preflop.

I don't like calling the flop.

If somehow I got to the turn, I'd check/raise it.

River is easy call.

[cfjr2]

I'm going to have to rethink my position / playing suited Ax

[Duerig]

Wow I really disagree with your suggestions here.

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I fold preflop.


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At .50 / 1.00 I would play suited aces from any position. In late position, I'll open raise with them.

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I don't like calling the flop.


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He's getting 10:1 the first time with 4 clean outs, maybe 5. I'd discount to 4.5 + implied outs. After it's raised back to him, his pot odds are even better.

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If somehow I got to the turn, I'd check/raise it.


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When the 3rd flush card hits it might scare our villians in late position from betting. I bet out on this turn.

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River is easy call.

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I bet this river.

[bottomset]

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At .50 / 1.00 I would play suited aces from any position. In late position, I'll open raise with them.



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you open limp A4s in MP2? or openraise it??

they are decent hands but nothing that special, def. not an autoplay at all .5/1 games, all positions

[Malachii]

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I don't like calling the flop.

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I don't like calling the flop either. I'd raise it.

[Duerig]

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you open limp A4s in MP2? or openraise it??

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Depends on how tight the table is.

[Losfer]

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I don't like calling the flop.


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He's getting 10:1 the first time with 4 clean outs, maybe 5. I'd discount to 4.5 + implied outs. After it's raised back to him, his pot odds are even better.


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None of his outs are clean, because it's possible he's up against a set or a made straight. Also, I believe the fact that he could get raised cuts down his odss, not improves them. For instance, in the actual hand Hero only received 8:1 on the flop (put in 2 to win 16) instead of the 11+:1 he would have received if there had been no raise.

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If somehow I got to the turn, I'd check/raise it.


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When the 3rd flush card hits it might scare our villians in late position from betting. I bet out on this turn.


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I don't think the 3rd flush hits until the river.

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River is easy call.

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I bet this river.

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There are so many ways that our hand is losing here, and MP3 has shown so much agression through out the hand. I very worried about getting raised on the river. I'd love a free showdown, but if MP3 bets (as he did) I'd make the call.

[sholvar]

I will not openraise every Acesuited. But i start with AceNine and sometimes i open A7s and better Acesuited (sometimes means if the table is veeery loose. because this raise is a value raise to punish the loose players this raise is very more effective against more loose players... that not for Duerig but for newbs reading this post ^_^) A6s and lower Acesuited is too marginal in my opinion. With A6 you only have the chance to get 6 toppair or a flush/flushdraw. On the cardstrength of A6 or lower i would not bet a penny. So many players call preflop with Ace-rag and every A9o beats your A6 if there is a Flop like A3J rainbow...
that is the reason I would call preflop 2.

And for the other post with preflop fold against the raise:
he just had pay 1 SB and now he only must call another SB with very good odds. If you call onetime preflop and have to call one raise after this, you can call everytime, no reason what your hand is (presupposing you dont call anything the first time, as you called only the big blind)

@flop: fold here. bottompair is a marginal hand and you have enough players behind you. You will not win 9% here.

from turn on, playing aggressive is okay. You only fear higher 2pair and American Airlines. Because of that your Hand is not invulnerable but the pot is big, you have a good chance to win and you will eliminate enemys.

[jrz1972]

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I don't like calling the flop either. I'd raise it.

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Agreed. This is a raise-or-fold situation, and since I'm not folding, I'm going to raise to protect my hand. There are a bunch of hands I would like to fold out here that might call for one bet but which will probably fold for two. Hands like A5, 77, gutshots, and hands containing a singleton big spade for instance. Flat calling is a clear mistake here.

[deepsquat]

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I don't like calling the flop either. I'd raise it.

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Agreed. This is a raise-or-fold situation, and since I'm not folding, I'm going to raise to protect my hand. There are a bunch of hands I would like to fold out here that might call for one bet but which will probably fold for two. Hands like A5, 77, gutshots, and hands containing a singleton big spade for instance. Flat calling is a clear mistake here.

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Protect what? You have bottom pair on a draw heavy board approximately 0% you have the best hand and a decent chance you will be 3bet leaving you with bottom pair and one overcard which is most likely tainted. I fold this flop in a heartbeat.

If you have position id call one bet and play very tentatively from then on.

[karitek]

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Protect what? You have bottom pair on a draw heavy board approximately 0% you have the best hand and a decent chance you will be 3bet leaving you with bottom pair and one overcard which is most likely tainted. I fold this flop in a heartbeat.

If you have position id call one bet and play very tentatively from then on.

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BB could be auto betting with anything after raising pre-flop. Since he raised pre-flop, it is less likely that this hand hit him since it is all relatively low cards.

You might not have the best hand now, but you can get a better one to fold by facing them with 2 cold. You have 5 outs (maybe 4.5 since the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif is probably tainted), giving you the odds to at least call. But you want a lot of hands to fold - you want to get out any gutshots, or any A5. The pot is big - you want to maximize your chance of winning it.

[Losfer]

I think you are over counting your outs.

[davelin]

I wouldn't open-limp here. I'd raise the flop.

[karitek]

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I think you are over counting your outs.

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on the flop, i'm not going to assume i'm up against a set or made straight until someone shows aggression. If I get re-rasied, then I'll rethink.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO calls, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO calls, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: (15 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

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This is a hand that would benefit from stopping the action on the flop, since knowing MP raised behind you taints everything...

Calling the flop is the worst of the 3 options IMHO. I raise the flop because of great relative positon and coordinated board.

[karitek]

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I wouldn't open-limp here. I'd raise the flop.

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Would you open-raise or fold? What would the table texture have to be for either option? I'd tend to open raise, but maybe this is a leak.

[davelin]

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I wouldn't open-limp here. I'd raise the flop.

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Would you open-raise or fold? What would the table texture have to be for either option? I'd tend to open raise, but maybe this is a leak.

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The table would have to be pretty tight for me to open-raise this IMO. Something like A7s+ I'll definitely open-raise. I don't think the difference between folding and raising is huge.

[parappa]

I fold preflop. Flop call is thin I think, but since you didn't fold I'd raise instead of call. After the turn raise I'd call down and c/c the river like you did.

[Losfer]

I'm not saying to assume these hands are out there, but you shouldn't assume that they are not either. You still have two people to act behind you. I don't like playing 2nd best hands that are drawing to second best hands. I think I'd count my outs as 3.5.

edit fixed multiple problems, and probably there are more. Typing is hard.

[karitek]

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You still have two people to act behind you.

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which is exactly why you raise. you want them to face two-cold. i'm going to assume that those hands aren't out there until someone gives me a reason to think otherwise. it's just as hard for our opponents to make good hands as us.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Nice hand. I fold preflop, raise the flop, 3-bet the turn and lead the river.

[Losfer]

I think that calling is terrible, and raising is much better, but I think I want to fold this flop. It seems like there are a lot of ways for this to go wrong. Even if we make our hand on the turn we could lose it on the river.

What's your plan if you raise the flop and MP3 re-raises?