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View Full Version : Reraise level 2 with TT - dumb?


microbet
06-14-2005, 06:27 PM
arty Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 (t1035)
MP3 (t745)
Hero (t1015)
Button (t790)
SB (t665)
BB (t740)
UTG (t1005)
UTG+1 (t1350)
MP1 (t655)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.

Final Pot: t45

bad converter

folds to MP2 who calls 30
MP3 raises to 150
HERO doesn't want to fold or call and pushes 1015

It was an aggressive game. It would have been crazy to put MP3 on a supertight range for the raise.

I think I was affected by having 3 tables going on later levels, but was this good, ok, bad, or horrible?

It was a $33

ekky
06-14-2005, 06:35 PM
The problem with this move, is that you will only get called by a better hand.

pearljam
06-14-2005, 06:36 PM
easy fold, at least for me, but what do I know.

zambonidrivr
06-14-2005, 06:39 PM
i don't mind this play to much. the raise was to big to be aa or kk. the only 2 hands you fear here is jj & qq. ax you are ahead. if your lucky, he's a 2+2'er and is pushing q6o

microbet
06-14-2005, 06:43 PM
You're on my watch list of clever posters now. I hope you can live up to my expectations.

ekky
06-14-2005, 06:59 PM
heh.

I'm not a huge fan of the move with 10/10. Given what you have said about the table, you can't apply a sqeaky tight range to this persons hand. The main problem in this instance is to insta-assume that because of the size of the raise size, it is less indicative of a big pair.

What do you justifiably put him on?

AK--AQ, AA----88? is this a little tight given the table dynamics?

I would estimate that TT figures to be about 46--48% vs this range, and given the size of the initial raise, its more then likely going to showndown, thus making FE almost redundant..

If you happen to assume a looser range, then you can mix it up to make TT a fav over the persons range, but then you run the risk of adjusting figures to suit your own ideals.

I dont think it was a terribly play, but I also wouldn't go as far as to say its great.

My preference with these hands, vs these people, is to act post flop.

If the table is as action-based as you say it is, there is a high % that you will get a decent chunk of their money in the pot on the flop, even if they have AK/AQ and miss it completely... this is another reason why i'd lean towards calling rather then simply jamming.


If they have an overpair, and the flop is attractive to your 10's, then you go bust either way.

If I think my 10's are good pre, I call and marry and flop without a AKQ on it. Sure, we sometimes lose to underpairs if we fold in these instances, but seeing as we figure to get AK/AQ money in the pot whether an Ace flops or not, it seems logical to wait for the flop before committing the rest of our chunk.

pokerlaw
06-14-2005, 07:01 PM
I dont like making a raise that big this early. I have been thinking lately that folding equity is probably higher with a RR to t500 or so.

Overall, i certainly dont hate it in a wild game. Two overs (or even an underpair /images/graemlins/blush.gif) could CERTAINLY call, and a double-up is great here. Definetly not horrible (doing it with any two is horrible IMO), but not my style.

jcm4ccc
06-14-2005, 07:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with this move, is that you will only get called by a better hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aah, the origin of your other post.

jcm4ccc
06-14-2005, 07:37 PM
Well, the overbet smacks of weakness, so I think there's a good chance you have the best hand. And it can be irritating to fold a good hand when you think you are ahead.

However, your explanation of your play sounds a bit psychological, as if you might be on tilt or not wanting to bother with this game because of your other games. "Hero doesn't want to fold or call." "It was an aggressive game. It would have been crazy to put MP3 on a supertight range." [Just because the table was aggressive doesn't MP3 was aggressive. Based on his chip count alone, it looks like he's been playing tight.)

Let the baby have his bottle. I would fold this.

microbet
06-14-2005, 07:41 PM
Partly I wanted to post this as a demonstration of how my sanctimonious ass thinks that you should handle yourself in chat.

Button called and then the original raiser called. They both had KK. I flopped a ten and tripled up - almost.

following chat
them: XXXXing reraise with tt.... pretty funny
them: idiot

me: just learning
them: it's no big deal you just got lucky

my HH doesn't ID the chatters - don't remember who said what


About the hand. The raise was just a pretty standard raise for the game. It could have easily been as weak as QJ. I expected a very large chance at getting it folded around to me. I didn't want to invest as much as a call and see an overcard on the flop. I thought even if called I was likely to see AK or AQ.

I do think it was a little early in the game to do this, but would guess it was +$EV.

microbet
06-14-2005, 07:42 PM
No, this came after. I'm assuming he read the other one and was being clever.

microbet
06-14-2005, 07:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
However, your explanation of your play sounds a bit psychological, as if you might be on tilt or not wanting to bother with this game because of your other games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Close. I wasn't tilting. But it was not my standard play and it was influenced by being in push/fold mode on 3 out of 4 tables. It was a lack of adjustment.

jcm4ccc
06-14-2005, 08:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Partly I wanted to post this as a demonstration of how my sanctimonious ass thinks that you should handle yourself in chat.


following chat
them: XXXXing reraise with tt.... pretty funny
them: idiot

me: just learning
them: it's no big deal you just got lucky



[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's an absolutely perfect response. I will probably steal it from you sometime.

[ QUOTE ]
I do think it was a little early in the game to do this, but would guess it was +$EV.

[/ QUOTE ] Probably, but you sitting down at the table is +$EV. I would say that that is probably more +$EV than this play, which is why I wouldn't make it.

Am I making sense? Another way to say this is that, in the long run, you would make more money by folding this than by pushing this, even if pushing this is +$EV.

microbet
06-14-2005, 08:06 PM
You're definitely making sense. I think it was marginal and unless a horde of top posters think it was an easy play I'll back off. I know you da' man, so it's pretty much settled.

vinyard
06-14-2005, 08:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Well, the overbet smacks of weakness, so I think there's a good chance you have the best hand. And it can be irritating to fold a good hand when you think you are ahead.


[/ QUOTE ]

I see a lot of people play their 77-JJ like this on PP - huge overraise to avoid the overcards on the flop. I don't think I push here with TT but of all the hands I could see him raising with you are only behind JJ. I imagine he had QQ or something better?

microbet
06-14-2005, 11:08 PM
The results are posted below. The raiser had KK. I think it was unusual. When a raise is too big I always think pockets JJ or less or AK.

curtains
06-15-2005, 12:02 AM
I would usually fold here. (usually meaning basically always unless I knew specifically that the raiser was nuts)