I wanna learn how to fight

[gamblore99]

What is the most practical fighting style to learn? One that has little commitment. For bars and stuff like that.

If it matters, I am 5'9 165lbs in good shape.

[jakethebake]

Get Bruiser to give you some kung fu pointers.

[Olof]

Krav Maga

[chaas4747]

Rex Kwan Do is good.

[The Truth]

jujitsu would be best if you want to actually win random 1 on 1 fights. I think you could show the most improvement int he shortest period of time using jujitsu.

Boxing is always good, but it requires a bit more time to improve. If you put a month into each one you would probly be able to win any given random fight.

[Dangergirl]

[ QUOTE ]
Rex Kwan Do is good.

[/ QUOTE ]
Heh, you beat me to it!

[pshreck]

Jujitsu is not practical for crowded areas (bars).

Just learn how to box, and stay strong.

[Macdaddy Warsaw]

Um...if you don't mind "fighting dirty" the obvious answer is always to pick up a weapon.

If you actually need to learn a fighting style, then I'd read what everybody above posted. If you just get into a drunken bar fight, just remember to not throw hooks at a drunk guy's face since he'll probably just roll with it. Throw jabs.

Also, a shot to the solar plexus (aim below the sternum) will put the average man down.

Yeehaw.

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
Jujitsu is not practical for crowded areas (bars).

Just learn how to box, and stay strong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I was assuming they would "take it outside"

However, I havent been in any bar fights, so not sure.

I do know that jujitsu might would allow this guy to not get totally smashed, but you're probly right, boxing would be much more convenient.

[chaas4747]

[ QUOTE ]
jujitsu would be best if you want to actually win random 1 on 1 fights. I think you could show the most improvement int he shortest period of time using jujitsu.

Boxing is always good, but it requires a bit more time to improve. If you put a month into each one you would probly be able to win any given random fight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think in a month he will be able to win a fight against a larger, untrained, opponent with some experience in bar fights?
I would not go lipping off to all the randoms that you meet. You may be able to keep from getting you ass kicked, but to say he could win this fight is incorrect.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Krav Maga

[/ QUOTE ]

This may be the correct response. Although I've never trained in it, I belive KM was designed to be easily learned.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jujitsu would be best if you want to actually win random 1 on 1 fights. I think you could show the most improvement int he shortest period of time using jujitsu.

Boxing is always good, but it requires a bit more time to improve. If you put a month into each one you would probly be able to win any given random fight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think in a month he will be able to win a fight against a larger, untrained, opponent with some experience in bar fights?
I would not go lipping off to all the randoms that you meet. You may be able to keep from getting you ass kicked, but to say he could win this fight is incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100% also. You'd guys would be surprised how much size and strength have to do with these fights. Unless one guy is particularly well trained, I will take the bigger/stronger guy 100% of the time. If you tell me the little guy wrestled in high school or knows how to box, that wont make much of a difference in my eyes.

[Blarg]

Boxing. It will get you used to seeing fists flying around you, letting you work on your rhythm, distance and timing right away. Boxing really puts you in the thick of things. It will also get you started developing speed and power right away that you can apply immediately, keep/get you in great shape, and get you into learning how to handle taking a punch and working through, frankly, being a little scared about the whole deal once in a while. Boxing takes guts! And makes them.

It's also good that it uses what you already are most likely to have at least a little comfort in and confidence in, your hands. Kicking takes much longer to get flexible for and learn to do with speed and power and timing, and it's still a little less practical overall. Throwing is much harder to do in a fight than punching and takes vastly longer to train to a decent level, and grappling gets your head kicked in by the friends of the guy you're on the ground with unless you're lucky enough to be one on one - and don't count on that.

Boxing will teach you to develop and work with your strengths right away, get in shape, get confidence, and it's very practical. You'll find your quickest results there. Expand out from there, whichever direction you want to. Boxing is a fine foundation to work from, especially for someone totally untrained.

By the way, I don't say this out of bias. I come from Karate, then Jiu-Jitsu, then Wing Chun. But I know the value of boxing.

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jujitsu would be best if you want to actually win random 1 on 1 fights. I think you could show the most improvement int he shortest period of time using jujitsu.

Boxing is always good, but it requires a bit more time to improve. If you put a month into each one you would probly be able to win any given random fight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think in a month he will be able to win a fight against a larger, untrained, opponent with some experience in bar fights?
I would not go lipping off to all the randoms that you meet. You may be able to keep from getting you ass kicked, but to say he could win this fight is incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

that would be 2 months of total training. Yes I believe this. Most people who get in fights get lost and confused easily. If you put the 2 people somewhere where noone is going to break the fight up, ill take the guy with 1 month of jujitsu over the untrained bigger guy 100% of the time.
Boxing helps more with the inital part and being used to getting hit in the face and not flipping out.

Granted there is a threshold where the weight given becomes to great. I agree someone wrestling in highschool isnt much help in a fight without further training. Highschool wrestlers will actually make some mistakes that make them worse street fighters than an untrained opponent. However, a high school wrestler would improve much more quickly with training than the untrained opponent.

[A_C_Slater]

I'm 5'8" 130 pounds.

What would be the optimal fighting style/technique to take out someone about 6' 4" 230 pounds?

By take out I mean demoralized and completely incapacitated, not just knocked down. Maximum damage. No weapons.

Can it be done?

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm 5'8" 130 pounds.

What would be the optimal fighting style/technique to take out someone about 6' 4" 230 pounds?

By take out I mean demoralized and completely incapacitated, not just knocked down. Maximum damage. No weapons.

Can it be done?

[/ QUOTE ]

is the 230 pounder a fat old woman? if not, get a bat or at least a stick or something.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm 5'8" 130 pounds.

What would be the optimal fighting style/technique to take out someone about 6' 4" 230 pounds?

By take out I mean demoralized and completely incapacitated, not just knocked down. Maximum damage. No weapons.

Can it be done?

[/ QUOTE ]

It can be done, but its entirely unlikely unless you have some incredible fighting abilities. If the guy is a fat slob with no strength then its much easier, but even then you are at a disadvantage.

[theghost]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm 5'8" 130 pounds.

What would be the optimal fighting style/technique to take out someone about 6' 4" 230 pounds?

By take out I mean demoralized and completely incapacitated, not just knocked down. Maximum damage. No weapons.

Can it be done?

[/ QUOTE ]
Somebody steal your gf?

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm 5'8" 130 pounds.

What would be the optimal fighting style/technique to take out someone about 6' 4" 230 pounds?

By take out I mean demoralized and completely incapacitated, not just knocked down. Maximum damage. No weapons.

Can it be done?

[/ QUOTE ]

It can be done, but its entirely unlikely unless you have some incredible fighting abilities. If the guy is a fat slob with no strength then its much easier, but even then you are at a disadvantage.

[/ QUOTE ]

wait wait, the optimal "technique" would be gaining weight.

[Kyle]

Running fast and far or perhaps a gun would be nice

[chaas4747]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
jujitsu would be best if you want to actually win random 1 on 1 fights. I think you could show the most improvement int he shortest period of time using jujitsu.

Boxing is always good, but it requires a bit more time to improve. If you put a month into each one you would probly be able to win any given random fight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think in a month he will be able to win a fight against a larger, untrained, opponent with some experience in bar fights?
I would not go lipping off to all the randoms that you meet. You may be able to keep from getting you ass kicked, but to say he could win this fight is incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

that would be 2 months of total training. Yes I believe this. Most people who get in fights get lost and confused easily. If you put the 2 people somewhere where noone is going to break the fight up, ill take the guy with 1 month of jujitsu over the untrained bigger guy 100% of the time.
Boxing helps more with the inital part and being used to getting hit in the face and not flipping out.

Granted there is a threshold where the weight given becomes to great. I agree someone wrestling in highschool isnt much help in a fight without further training. Highschool wrestlers will actually make some mistakes that make them worse street fighters than an untrained opponent. However, a high school wrestler would improve much more quickly with training than the untrained opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have seen a 6'2" 220 pound guy take a full kick in the gut from someone probably 5'9" 165, and the larger guy kept on coming. If you know moves that could incapacitate the larger guy, get them down so you could flee then I agree. You really need to be able to inflict some amount of pain in these fights.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm 5'8" 130 pounds.

What would be the optimal fighting style/technique to take out someone about 6' 4" 230 pounds?

By take out I mean demoralized and completely incapacitated, not just knocked down. Maximum damage. No weapons.

Can it be done?

[/ QUOTE ]
Somebody steal your gf?

[/ QUOTE ]

Kicked sand on him at the beach.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm 5'8" 130 pounds.

What would be the optimal fighting style/technique to take out someone about 6' 4" 230 pounds?

By take out I mean demoralized and completely incapacitated, not just knocked down. Maximum damage. No weapons.

Can it be done?

[/ QUOTE ]

Step on his knee.

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm 5'8" 130 pounds.

What would be the optimal fighting style/technique to take out someone about 6' 4" 230 pounds?

By take out I mean demoralized and completely incapacitated, not just knocked down. Maximum damage. No weapons.

Can it be done?

[/ QUOTE ]
Somebody steal your gf?

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes. Some ogre named Biff that's been kicking sand in my face whenever I take her to the beach.

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm 5'8" 130 pounds.

What would be the optimal fighting style/technique to take out someone about 6' 4" 230 pounds?

By take out I mean demoralized and completely incapacitated, not just knocked down. Maximum damage. No weapons.

Can it be done?

[/ QUOTE ]
Somebody steal your gf?

[/ QUOTE ]

Kicked sand on him at the beach.

[/ QUOTE ]


Whoa. I swear I didn't read this before making my last post.

[bisonbison]

Step on his knee with your car.

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm 5'8" 130 pounds.

What would be the optimal fighting style/technique to take out someone about 6' 4" 230 pounds?

By take out I mean demoralized and completely incapacitated, not just knocked down. Maximum damage. No weapons.

Can it be done?

[/ QUOTE ]
Somebody steal your gf?

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes. Some ogre named Biff that's been kicking sand in my face whenever I take her to the beach.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you live? ill ride by and we can give him a team beating.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
What is the most practical fighting style to learn? One that has little commitment. For bars and stuff like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

My experience is that there's a very direct correlation between guys who get into real fights at bars (as opposed to frat boys getting in each other's face and shoving each other a couple of times) and guys who carry knives. Be advised of this before you start getting into fights at bars.

[A_C_Slater]

I remember seeing an episode of Doogie Howser M.D. when Doogie got in a fight with a much larger street thug that wanted his woman.

Doogie clapped the guy's ears with both hands on both ears at the same time and the guy winced in pain. I think Doogie then kneed him in the face and ran away. Could this really work?

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is the most practical fighting style to learn? One that has little commitment. For bars and stuff like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

My experience is that there's a very direct correlation between guys who get into real fights at bars (as opposed to frat boys getting in each other's face and shoving each other a couple of times) and guys who carry knives. Be advised of this before you start getting into fights at bars.

[/ QUOTE ]

Along these lines, putting your beer bottle down to fight is not a good strategy.

[bisonbison]

My experience is that there's a very direct correlation between guys who get into real fights at bars (as opposed to frat boys getting in each other's face and shoving each other a couple of times) and guys who carry knives. Be advised of this before you start getting into fights at bars.

Yes.

Remember guys, most people who like to get in fights have little to lose. Stay out of their way.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Doogie clapped the guy's ears with both hands on both ears at the same time and the guy winced in pain.

[/ QUOTE ]

It hurts like hell, but good luck getting him to stand still for it.

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Doogie clapped the guy's ears with both hands on both ears at the same time and the guy winced in pain.

[/ QUOTE ]

It hurts like hell, but good luck getting him to stand still for it.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well, Doogie was on his back and the guy was mounting him and pounding on his face then Doogie reached up and boxed his ears. That silly bastard never saw it coming.

[Blarg]

Anything could work, but not if you're not fast enough. And moving two arms at the same time without telegraphing is very hard. Especially if you're a little guy moving them upwards.

You're talking about popping the eardrums basically. You have to place your hit with reasonable accuracy to do that.

I've had a busted eardrum. It hurts like hell. If you do that to someone, he's not just going to punch you; he's going to want to kill you. Popping someone's eardrum is serious, dirty stuff. Don't do that to someone you don't want to inspire to break a bottle and shove it in your face and move it around a lot.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
What is the most practical fighting style to learn?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.arsenal.dvc.pl/galeria/browning-hp9fix.jpg

[bernie]

The art of verbal self defense.
Learn how to yap your way out of a situation. But, there are times...

I agree with blarg that boxing would be the quickest for giving some confidence in defending yourself. It's pretty easy to learn how to throw a basic punch.

Most guys in bars barely know how to throw anything short of a highly telegraphed haymaker. It can get pretty comical watching some of them.

b

[ChicagoTroy]

Martial arts S&C is a hobby of mine and I teach workshops periodically. I've got a lot of familiarity with what you're asking about.

This is going to depend heavily on where you live, since you're looking for a good instructor (and training partners), not a good style. On the DVD front, there are some very, very good videos on knife fighting if you can get a few training partners. Somebody good with a knife will end fights very quickly.

For striking/grappling styles, you're going to want to put on about 20 pounds, BTW. Back squats are your fren.

Where do you live? I may be able to suggest some places to check out.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
On the DVD front, there are some very, very good videos on knife fighting if you can get a few training partners.

[/ QUOTE ]

More info please.

[Jakesta]

Bingo, Jeff.

Guns are the way to go. CCW

[jaybee_70]

Why?

Joe

[SmileyEH]

I really wanted to learn how to box, but everytime I get hit in the nose even the slightest bit i start spewing blood (awesome pictures to prove it). Maybe I should get it cauterized.

-SmileyEH

[David04]

Mike Tyson will teach you for around $40,000,000.

[gamblore99]

[ QUOTE ]
This is going to depend heavily on where you live, since you're looking for a good instructor (and training partners), not a good style. On the DVD front, there are some very, very good videos on knife fighting if you can get a few training partners. Somebody good with a knife will end fights very quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want to kill anybody, just be able to defend myself.

[raisethatmofo]

[gamblore99]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is the most practical fighting style to learn? One that has little commitment. For bars and stuff like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

My experience is that there's a very direct correlation between guys who get into real fights at bars (as opposed to frat boys getting in each other's face and shoving each other a couple of times) and guys who carry knives. Be advised of this before you start getting into fights at bars.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, thats why I try my best to not get in fights. I have never been in a real fight my entire life, and I am 20. I have been in one or two of those shoving matches you refer to. Most of the times those shoving matches are started by some random guy. I feel really stupid walking away from a guy who probably has 10 pounds on me and looks out of shape because I have absolutely no idea how to punch.

[gamblore99]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll fight you, gamblore.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. you will hit me and I will fall down. That isn't much of a fight now is it?

[rusellmj]

Kickboxing. Put in the effort and you'll be able to defend yourself. Most people have never trained, any skill at all can give you an advantage.

[touchfaith]

[ QUOTE ]
What is the most practical fighting style to learn? One that has little commitment. For bars and stuff like that.

If it matters, I am 5'9 165lbs in good shape.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quart'a blood technique

[JustSomeJackass]

When your opponent gets you in a headlock, scream "I'm a hemophiliac!" and when he lets you go, kick him in the back.

[mcb]

boxing

[Rev. Good Will]

muay thai kickboxing, easy

its the type that most mixed martial arts fighters use for their standing game.

I'm kinda into MMA, but my friend is much more obsessed, he's a regular poster on sherdog.com, I would recommend checking them out.

[Felix_Nietsche]

I agree with what he says on Jui Jitsu.

1. Boxing teaches you how to throw a correct punch. A good jab can take a boxing novice a part. A proper hook and overhand right can be devestating. Also boxing teaches courage when fists start flying at your face.
2. Brazilian Jui Jitsu (BJJ) teaches ground fighting which many fights turn into. After three months of BJJ training you can take on someone who weighs 50% more than you (on the ground and assuming they don't know BJJ).
3. Mu Tai (Thai Boxing) the kicks that are taught in Muy Tai are awesome. A properly placed shin kick to your opponents thigh will take the fight out of 95% of your average opponents.

Fighting is like rock-paper-scissor.
A wrestler can destroy a boxer by taking him to the ground.
A BJJ guy can destroy a wrestler.
A boxer with good BJJ knowledge will destroy a pure BJJ.

Learn a combo of fighting styles for optimum results.

PS
Kung Fu = Useless
Karate/Tae Kwon Do = OK, but the fancy kicks are too slow and your timing with kicks has to be perfect or you'll get your ass kicked. Your average wrestler will destroy a Karate guy unless the Karate gut gets lucky.
Judo = Pretty Good but BJJ is better.

[heavybody]

Get in a few. That 'll help if you survive.

[BradleyT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is going to depend heavily on where you live, since you're looking for a good instructor (and training partners), not a good style. On the DVD front, there are some very, very good videos on knife fighting if you can get a few training partners. Somebody good with a knife will end fights very quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want to kill anybody, just be able to defend myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

After you're 23 you'll never have to worry about bar fights ever again.

[Rev. Good Will]

BJJ (http://bjj.org/)

assuming of course, you could take him down to the ground (via grappling/"shooting in on him")

I mean, if the <150lb gracie dudes did it to win against all those big dudes in the early days of no weight class UFC mathces...

http://img273.echo.cx/img273/3378/graciearmbar3nf.jpg

then armbar/kneebar/kimora/anclelock/choke your little heart out on the bastard.

[MrMoo]

I agree in principal with what you said but I'm going to pick some things apart.

First off, it's Muay Thai.

Boxing is great. You need to learn how to hit. You need to learn how to cover up. But, boxing alone won't make you a great fighter. Boxers don't expect to get kicked. They also don't expect to taken down. And if they are, they expect to be stood back up.

Brazillian Jiu Jitsu is great. Early UFC's proved this is a very dominant form of martial arts. But, it takes a LONG time before someone can "take on someone who weighs 50% more than you". Strength and weight have A LOT to do with it. I'm pretty good on the ground yet I have a very difficult time ground rolling with one of the guys at my school because he is so big. I can't even wrap my legs around him to control him. Most armlocks I put him in he is able to power out of with shear strength. Plus, it sucks real bad having someone weighing 100lbs.+ laying on you. Unless you have good conditioning, you will get very tired very quickly.

There are a couple of other downsides to training in BJJ for a streetfight. First, BJJ is traditionally taught using a gi. While there are plenty of mixed martial arts schools that train without one, if you train using a gi you'll have some problems adopting a lot of moves to street fighting. Most importantly, BJJ is typically a ground game. Rolling around on the ground in a bar fight isn't a good idea. Usually people at bars are with friends. When you take some guy down at a bar, move to mount and pull off that sweet ass armbar you just learned, it's gonna suck when his buddy starts stomping on your face.

You're partially right about Muay Thai kicks. To the casual person training in Muay Thai, it will take years before they develop the kicking power to stop someone with one kick. I've been training almost 2 years and I doubt I could do it. Granted a kick will hurt like a bitch and they'll have trouble walking for awhile but most people will be able to take a kick or two in a fight because their addrenalin is going.

To Gamblore, I didn't respond to this earlier because I thought you were joking. If you really wanted to learn to defend yourself you're best off finding a local school which teached Mixed Martial Arts or Vale Tudo. Instead of focusing on one discipline you'll become a well rounded fighter and capable of defending yourself in most situations. However if you want to learn quick like you said or you can't tolerate a little pain, I wouldn't waste your time. We have tons of people who come into my school and train for a month or two. They leave shortly thereafter because they realize A) it's very hard work, B) it takes a long time to get "good" and C) it hurts a lot.

Holy crap, why did I write all that?

[A_C_Slater]

Forget all that crap.

I just want to know how to beat people up in bars.

Everyone knows this is an essential skill to have.

Women dig guy's with bar-fighting skillz. /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[bholdr]

the secret to winning bar fights against big drunk k-holes?


throw the first punch. seriously.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
k-holes

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[raisins]

The acknowledged master in teaching people how to fight in a very short period of time is W.E. Fairbairn. His book is _Get Tough_. I think you can find scans of it for free on the Internet. Another book by a student of his that has similar instruction is _Kill or Be Killed_ by Rex Applegate. There is nothing magical about the approach; they advocate a strong forward drive pushing the opponent back, open hand chops to the side of the neck, palm strikes to the chin, fingers to the eyes, knees to the groin and stomps to the foot and knee. It's more a paring away of everything that is less effective. These books came out of WWII and the systems were developed primarily for the military. Their approach to fighting is what to do when you are without weapons.

In my opinion, these are not the best response to use with some drunk at a bar or a pissed off friend. A woman confronted with a rapist is the type of threat where these techniques are appropriate. From what I can tell this is along the lines of what they teach in those Model Mugging classes, except that the chops to the neck don't work so hot against that huge helmet.

regards,

raisins

[nothumb]

Why do you want to learn how to fight? Do you get beat up a lot? Live in a rough area? Or are you just a detached suburbanite craving some sort of visceral, physical thrill?

The best way to learn how to fight is to get in a fight. You'll probably get your ass beat a few times.

Other than that, I agree with Blarg.

NT

[bernie]

Maybe ya oughtta learn how to duck, bob and weave. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Kickboxing. Put in the effort and you'll be able to defend yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

You did notice this part of his post, right?

[ QUOTE ]
One that has little commitment.

[/ QUOTE ]

b

[cokehead]

how about starting a fight club and getting some practice. anyone want to do this in nyc?

[nothumb]

[ QUOTE ]
Boxing is great. You need to learn how to hit. You need to learn how to cover up. But, boxing alone won't make you a great fighter. Boxers don't expect to get kicked. They also don't expect to taken down. And if they are, they expect to be stood back up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have seen a lot of fights between street punks at my job, and let me tell you, those trained in boxing absolutely destroy all comers, regardless of size. I've seen kids lunge to tackle a guy and get stood straight back up with a solid right. And then get sat down by another one. If I had to send the untrained fighter described above into a fight a month from today, I would undoubtedly teach him to box. Also because typical boxing training puts you in real combat, and the value of that is seriously underestimated. Most martial arts have you doing all sorts of forms and drills for way too long for the noncommitted person to get solid fighting experience.

NT

[Joe826]

kung fu + orgazmorator

[Reef]

Basic boxing easily..

keep your fists up and arms somewhat locked to protect your face. (It does no good if your fists are up in front of your face, but when someone punches your fists, and they plow into your face)

don't try anything fancy

if all else fails, a kick/knee to the jimmy should do it.

[mmcd]

The best way to learn how to fight is to get in a fight. You'll probably get your ass beat a few times.

I agree with this. The problem is that this really should be done when you are a kid. That way you don't have to risk assualt and battery charges (although in this day and age thats probably not the case anymore) or going up against someone who can do some serious damage. Just remember that losing a fight to a full-grown man thats bigger than you might result in a lengthy hospital stay or worse. Repeadetly getting kicked in the head by some drunken [censored] and a bunch of his friends is not a good spot to be in, so don't get in any fights that you aren't going to win or at the very least make sure you have quite a few reasonably tough friends around.

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]


I agree, thats why I try my best to not get in fights. I have never been in a real fight my entire life, and I am 20. I have been in one or two of those shoving matches you refer to. Most of the times those shoving matches are started by some random guy. I feel really stupid walking away from a guy who probably has 10 pounds on me and looks out of shape because I have absolutely no idea how to punch.

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like you'd be better served by learning to control yourself when you're drinking and to be better aware of your surroundings.

I used to have to coordinate security for a building where a lot of college kids drank, and it's extremely rare for someone who pays attention to his surroundings and treats others with respect to be forced into a fight.

Nothing good ever happened to either party when an honest to god fight broke out--people always ended up injured, worried about a lawsuit, or both.

scrub

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Kung Fu = Useless

[/ QUOTE ]

About as dumb as it gets.

There are over 300 kinds of kung fu. It's also where karate and judo and jiu jitsu came from. You might as well write off everything but boxing and wrestling, if that's your outlook.

This comment pretty much invalidated everything you could possibly have to say and showed pretty much bottomless ignorance.

P.S. Muay thai is great, but conditioning your shins takes quite some time, even a thigh kick with the shins takes some conditioning, and being a good kicker takes a good while to do, too. The original poster wanted something that could be learned a little quicker.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Forget all that crap.

I just want to know how to beat people up in bars.

Everyone knows this is an essential skill to have.

Women dig guy's with bar-fighting skillz. /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's more of a closet gay thing. Men dig guys with bar-fighting skillz.

[fimbulwinter]

my policy on fights in recent times has been to be drunk enough that you don't remember the beating you took. In my younger days i prided myself on winning, but honestly what do i get out of trouncing some 5'8" prick when i can let him whoop me, feel no pain for it and know we'll both have funny anecdotes to tell the next morning.

fim

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Boxing is great. You need to learn how to hit. You need to learn how to cover up. But, boxing alone won't make you a great fighter. Boxers don't expect to get kicked. They also don't expect to taken down. And if they are, they expect to be stood back up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have seen a lot of fights between street punks at my job, and let me tell you, those trained in boxing absolutely destroy all comers, regardless of size. I've seen kids lunge to tackle a guy and get stood straight back up with a solid right. And then get sat down by another one. If I had to send the untrained fighter described above into a fight a month from today, I would undoubtedly teach him to box. Also because typical boxing training puts you in real combat, and the value of that is seriously underestimated. Most martial arts have you doing all sorts of forms and drills for way too long for the noncommitted person to get solid fighting experience.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]

[Blarg]

Yup one of the problems with a real street fight is that it doesn't have to end when you've lost or are unconscious.

[fimbulwinter]

if you do decide you want/need to win the fight:

as with most endeavours, if you do want to win a fight, you must be more agressive and want i more. that means having a mental switch. think "past this point (he throws a punch, he spits at you etc.) im fighting as hard as i can"

hesitant fighters always lose unless they have massive natural advantages. it doesnt matter if you've never thrown a punch, if you decide to fight, go all-out right from the start and make him submit any way you can. this is one reason drunks/highs often win fights; not because they're magically stronger but because they dont hesitate and they go all out right off.

fim

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is the most practical fighting style to learn?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.arsenal.dvc.pl/galeria/browning-hp9fix.jpg


[/ QUOTE ]


That. Plus this....

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005JLWN.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg



Equals Gun-Fu. Or whatever its called in the movie. Its unstoppable. Or well, at least Bale was in the movie. But I see it being practicle in a barfight. They'll never see it coming.

[MuckerFish]

I somehow feel uniquely qualified to answer this question...
I studied martial arts for years (Okinawain goju-ryu) and was pretty sure that I could take most people in a ring if some old dude was awarding us points. I'm also pretty fortunate that I'm on the bigger side, about 6'2'', 200lbs give or take a few doughnuts. I'm sure most of you can tell where this bad beat story is going by now. In a bar with my buddies, one of them gets in a scuffle, typical college kid crap. I go over to help break it up and I'm quickly greeted by a half full bottle of heinekin, which looks eerily familiar to the bright green **POW** that you used to see on the old Batman TV show. Things are a little fuzzy from there, but I do remember that when I woke up in the ICU my jaw was on the other side of my face. 2 facial reconstructive surgeries later and you can barely notice the 7 inch scar on my neck. As an added bonus I weighed a svelt 150lbs after having my jaw wired shut for 4 months. Now when I drink, it sometimes looks like I had a stroke because of the nerves they had to cut during the first surgery. Point being, just because you train in some fighting style doesnt mean it will have a practical application in the real world of bar fighting.
Years later, I'm in a rugby game. Get into it with some guy, and I snap. When the smoke clears, he's getting helped off the field by his team mates. I had learnt my lesson all too well the last time.

So here are my recommendations for "The Best Bar Fighting Techniques"
1. The ancient art of "Half full beer bottle to the Kisser"
2. A crowd of less than sane friends who are well trained in above said art, or other such noble fighting styles

If the above mentioned training techniques seem like too much of a committment compared to the amount of time you actually have to train may I recommend the following instead:
1. Actually go out and get your ass kicked in a bar fight
2. Quickly vow to never let yourself get your ass kicked in a bar fight again and take a crash course in the above.

You see, a bar fight has realitively little to do with training. It has to do with who the sickest F**K is and who has the least regard for human life. Getting the first cheap shot in is paramount. Also getting in a few fights in your lifetime and thus being prepared for how much your eyes are actually going to tear when you get cracked in the nose doesn't hurt either. If you believe anything else you've seen too many movies.

As an added bonus I'll pass on this little pearl of wisdom:
You can never actually break up a fight. You are either in the fight or you are not in the fight. Anything less than these two extremes and you likely will end up having a good story to post on these boards later in life.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I somehow feel uniquely qualified to answer this question...

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe qualified, but not uniquely. Where did you train in Goju?

[MuckerFish]

NYC, but a long time ago. I'm nothing more than a crotchity old man in his 30's now.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
NYC, but a long time ago. I'm nothing more than a crotchity old man in his 30's now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too. But IMO Goju is a more complete style than many. And is probably better suited for bar fights than some others. It's fairly brutal.

[MuckerFish]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I somehow feel uniquely qualified to answer this question...

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe qualified, but not uniquely. Where did you train in Goju?

[/ QUOTE ]

Vey true about the unique thing. Probably alot of others with "I know maritial arts and got my assed kicked" stories out there. Not to hijack the thread, but if anyone else has a goodie it would be fun to hear.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Vey true about the unique thing. Probably alot of others with "I know maritial arts and got my assed kicked" stories out there. Not to hijack the thread, but if anyone else has a goodie it would be fun to hear.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had my ass kicked plenty. I can't think of any really good stories right now. I guess the big scar on one side of my head. It happened my first night on okinawa. The only guy I knew on the whole island takes me out to a few bars. There was some kind of brawl going on in the middle of the street. It was like 15 or 20 people. Anyway, my buddy just wades right in. I don't think he even knew any of the participants or what side he was on. He went down and I was pulling someone off of him when I got hit with something and went down. The Japanese Police pull up and my buddy throws me in a cab right before they start arresting everybody. I got like 8 staples in my head. That was a shitty night.

I've also got a nose that you can tell by looking has been broken a number of times. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ripdog]

[ QUOTE ]
Get Bruiser to give you some kung fu pointers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kung Fu is too nasty for a simple bar fight. The stuff I learned in two years of lessons was very brutal stuff. Temple punches and arm breaks, driving the knee into the ground at a 45 degree angle, hooking the eye socket and tearing out the bridge of someone's nose, driving your elbow down and through someone's collar bone, not to mention how easy it would be to crack their windpipe. Go learn this stuff, but if you have a brain in your head, you'll try anything to avoid having to use it. The workouts were incredible, the instructors were in amazing shape. You think you're in good shape? You'll know what good shape is after one workout at a reputable Kung Fu studio. After two years of workouts four times a week, I was very strong, but the workouts still kicked my ass.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Kung Fu is too nasty for a simple bar fight. The stuff I learned in two years of lessons was very brutal stuff. Temple punches and arm breaks, driving the knee into the ground at a 45 degree angle, hooking the eye socket and tearing out the bridge of someone's nose, driving your elbow down and through someone's collar bone, not to mention how easy it would be to crack their windpipe. Go learn this stuff, but if you have a brain in your head, you'll try anything to avoid having to use it. The workouts were incredible, the instructors were in amazing shape. You think you're in good shape? You'll know what good shape is after one workout at a reputable Kung Fu studio. After two years of workouts four times a week, I was very strong, but the workouts still kicked my ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what kind of bar fights you're talking about, but this is exactly what a bar fight calls for. Stomp on the knee. Head butt them in the nose. Punch them in the throat. If I'm not ready to do that, then I'm not in a fight. A bar fight is not the time for Marquis of Queensbury.

[ChicagoTroy]

Can't find the link, I'll post or PM you this afternoon. It's basically Silat-type stuff, which is very practical and nasty. Even Gracie instructors, who have no small egos, say running from a knife fighter is the smartest move. Most of the stuff on knife fighting will originate from 3rd World countries (Indonesia, the Phillipines) where there's a decent concentration of people who will actually apply the stuff. That's obviously a lot rarer here, where life and death stuff is going to get sorted out with gun-fu or run-fu.

[chaas4747]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kung Fu is too nasty for a simple bar fight. The stuff I learned in two years of lessons was very brutal stuff. Temple punches and arm breaks, driving the knee into the ground at a 45 degree angle, hooking the eye socket and tearing out the bridge of someone's nose, driving your elbow down and through someone's collar bone, not to mention how easy it would be to crack their windpipe. Go learn this stuff, but if you have a brain in your head, you'll try anything to avoid having to use it. The workouts were incredible, the instructors were in amazing shape. You think you're in good shape? You'll know what good shape is after one workout at a reputable Kung Fu studio. After two years of workouts four times a week, I was very strong, but the workouts still kicked my ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what kind of bar fights you're talking about, but this is exactly what a bar fight calls for. Stomp on the knee. Head butt them in the nose. Punch them in the throat. If I'm not ready to do that, then I'm not in a fight. A bar fight is not the time for Marquis of Queensbury.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this prevalent throughout this thread. There is no technique to a bar fight. Train all you want. When you try to temple punch me and I hit you in the throat you are going down, end of sentence. Go look at Skeme's post with the video to see how far technique will actually take you against a larger stronger opponent.

[Blarg]

That's something I hate about fighting. I love sparring, but fighting if you don't want to kill someone is just stupid and very dangerous. Once you start trying to hurt someone instead of kill them, you become way too vulnerable, inhibited, and completely at cross purposes with yourself. It's assinine. You just set yourself up to lose. And you don't really want to win, either. Not like that. It's the worst of all worlds. Completely a fool's game. You can't win no matter what the outcome.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this prevalent throughout this thread. There is no technique to a bar fight. Train all you want. When you try to temple punch me and I hit you in the throat you are going down, end of sentence. Go look at Skeme's post with the video to see how far technique will actually take you against a larger stronger opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it's semantics, but I think this is wrong. Hitting someone in the throat is a technique. Stepping on a knee is a technique. They're very simple, but not extremely easy to do quickly when someone isn't just standing there for you. Real martial arts isn't about learning how to dance around and look pretty. If you've preacticed stepping on a knee a few thousand times, you can do it. The best techniques are quick, simple and explosive small movements. I'd never argue there isn't a lot to being bigger and stronger. There is. But there's also a lot to knowing how.

[Diplomat]

This definitely is the correct response, save for the MGD To The Head responses.

-Diplomat

[ChicagoTroy]

First off, I would posit that learning to defend oneself while not learning to kill somebody is not self-defense, it's ego defense. You're getting into the type of fighting where somebody is trying to beat you up, not rob/kill/maim/rape you. That stuff is usually 100% avoidable, unless you have a job that requires it (LE, paramedic, etc).

That said, ego-based fighting is a lot more common these days, so it's good to know something. If you have a good Brazillian jiujitsu school nearby (BJJ), that makes things pretty easy as it's quick to learn, scalable, and there aren't a lot of terrible schools out there yet. By scalable, I mean you can exert different degress of force. Put a guy in a lock or choke, he's likely going to give up before you have to really hurt him. A karateka can't do that. The main thing you need to worry about is that they have a self defense focus, rather than a sport one. Lots and lots of ground work won't prepare you for a) people punching you, and b) fighting on your feet.

This goes back to the original question of where you're located, since you are more concerned about decent instruction rather than a good style. Depending on where you are, a good karate school, krav maga, muy thai, even a Chinese internal art like Hsing-I will provide excellent self defense foundatiion in less than a year.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this prevalent throughout this thread. There is no technique to a bar fight. Train all you want. When you try to temple punch me and I hit you in the throat you are going down, end of sentence. Go look at Skeme's post with the video to see how far technique will actually take you against a larger stronger opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it's semantics, but I think this is wrong. Hitting someone in the throat is a technique. Stepping on a knee is a technique. They're very simple, but not extremely easy to do quickly when someone isn't just standing there for you. Real martial arts isn't about learning how to dance around and look pretty. If you've preacticed stepping on a knee a few thousand times, you can do it. The best techniques are quick, simple and explosive small movements. I'd never argue there isn't a lot to being bigger and stronger. There is. But there's also a lot to knowing how.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. And I think people forget how slow a lot of big guys are, and how easy it is to see the hits of almost any untrained guy coming. A lot of little boxers will take out huge guys on the street because your average guy's punch is telegraphed in from a half hour ago, and isn't all that quick once it gets started. A few sharp shots Joe Drunk has no hope of getting away from, and even a big guy can fall pretty easily. Being big doesn't put any extra padding on your chin.

That said, there are no guarantees in fights. But just being big is not one of the best guarantees of winning.

[Senor Choppy]

Miyagi Do Karate.

[gamblore99]

Thanks for all the responses guys. It looks like boxing is the most practical for what I want. I am not trying to become a martial arts master, my goal isn't to be able to take down someone bigger than me, its just to learn the bare basics of fighting.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
...my goal isn't to be able to take down someone bigger than me, its just to learn the bare basics of fighting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then what's the point of learning to fight if you can't take down someone bigger than you? I don't get it. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...my goal isn't to be able to take down someone bigger than me, its just to learn the bare basics of fighting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then what's the point of learning to fight if you can't take down someone bigger than you? I don't get it. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It means his goal is to be able to defend himself regardless of the size of the person. Not just against the bigger people.

b

[dead0eye]

Aikido sure comes to my mind! Excellent place to start with!

[Gamblor]

depends on your plan, i suppose.

if you want to absolutely kick the [censored] out of the guy, virtually anything is better than krav maga.

while its easy to learn, its mainly to use against terrorists - defusing attackers (mostly with weapons) when you dont have a weapon. So you may have to hand your MGD to him in order to successfully use it.