Home game dilemma - sort of

[agar316]

I've been playing in the same game on the weekends for over a year now. It's a casual NL cash game with a $20 buy-in. Everyone there is friends with an occasional "new guy" here and there. The issue I'm having is that I win pretty much all the time. On a normal night I'll be in for $20 and cash out anywhere from $125-$250. This past weekend I actually won all the money at the table. I don't know about your games but in my game this had never been done before. Usually a few people cash out ahead with some having more than others. Anyway that was sort of the last straw. People were genuinely upset that I have been winning consistently for a while now. There were comments about me not being invited anymore. Although they were all said in a joking manner I'm sure there was a little truth behind it. The problem is that these are all my friends and I enjoy the company. Obviously the money is great but even if I were losing I'd still play. Anyone ever been in this situation? How can I handle this? I don't want to take a dive and I don't want to find a new game as these are my friends. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[duality72]

Some suggestions:

Play different games you're not good at.

Introduce a higher luck factor (wild cards or something).

Handicap yourself; you get half as many chips for your buy-in or something.

None of those probably sound that appealing from a 'pure poker' competitive standpoint, but you're kicking their asses and something's gotta give to change that.

[TomHimself]

[ QUOTE ]
Some suggestions:

Play different games you're not good at.

Introduce a higher luck factor (wild cards or something).

Handicap yourself; you get half as many chips for your buy-in or something.

None of those probably sound that appealing from a 'pure poker' competitive standpoint, but you're kicking their asses and something's gotta give to change that.

[/ QUOTE ]keep owning them

[agar316]

My initial thoughts were just that..."keep owning them". I thought by continually kicking their asses that atleast a few would try to get better. Not the case.

[Yarney]

The best thing that I can tell you is to win graciously. Sometimes thats all you can do...

-Yarney

[TomHimself]

have u tried tourneys? they must be really bad or your extreemely nasty /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[djoyce003]

I don't generally play a TAG style in a home game..it makes you look like a tool. I play a LAG style more...you don't win as much, but if you are good post flop you still win. People don't want you in their friendly home games if you only play super strong hands, and consistently win all the money...you've gotta mix it up as long as you are just playing recreationally.

[Yawkey]

If these guys are going to play until all their chips are gone anyways, play it tourny style. Try to pay out as many places as is reasonable with the lowest paying place doubling their money. If you like the ring game because people can come when they please just add a re-buy period. The other thing you will notice is that the other players will have some incentive to get better (by reading and whatnot), since there is no cash out option they must get better if they want to win any money. Better players I think makes for a much more fun game if it's just a bunch of friends for a couple bucks. But if this is your income, don't worry about it and just keep shooting the fish in the barrel. As long as your are a nice guy you really don't need to worry about being invited back, these guys are clearly there for the fellowship, not the money.

[Diggslick]

Here's the what usually comes to my mind when I read these threads like this: variance will set you free.

I'm by no means the probability guru of the level you will find on this forum, but for them to play bad enough that you can beat them that bad, it just seems that there will have to be nights where at least someone hits enough [censored] that they win more or almost as much as you. While hold'em cash games immensely favor the superior player over the long run, there just aren't enough hand played in the typical poker night to hit the statistical long run. Good reads and instinct would help beyond this, but I would think their blindsiding five-outers would have to start coming in sooner or later.

[hornsby15]

I agree, try a tourney format. For one, your friends can have fun with that all in thing that is so popular with new players, and two, seeing as you are trying to find a way to not win every time without taking a dive (sort of), we all know how easy it is to get your strong hands cracked by a weak player with a weak hand, and think of how exciting it will be for them (I busted the guy who wins all the time!)

Plus like earlier suggested, if you have a prize for someone that is getting their money back, you can find ways for yourself to not actually lose any money either.

I could have totally misunderstood what you were looking for, but......

[bolgenmod]

Instead of tournaments, what about limit? Crappy players still overvalue their hands, but they don't lose as much on each hand when they do. And when they suck out on you (which they will), you haven't lost as much as you might in no-limit either.

In almost 2 years of playing a regular limit game, we average having one person who loses his/her whole buy-in about every game (a little less than that on average). (And, no surprise, 70% of the time it's the same player!) The most anyone has ever won, on the other hand, is about three times the buy-in (and as the banker believe me I know!). Even though the same two or three players keep winning or losing slightly more than average, no one gets upset.

Of course, it's upsetting to get donked. And it would be much nicer to win big every week. But it's a friendly game -- I make a little money, and everyone else thinks it's all luck!

Tournaments can be fun, but they also guarantee that many of the players will not win anything. If they're already upset with your winning ways, why take away their hope that they'll win anything at all?

[top-spin]

I was in the same exact situation about 9 months ago. I've read a lot of books, honed my skills on the internet, understand pot odds and all that. I'm a decent player and I've never lost money down in AC when I play the low limit tables at the Taj, Borgata, Resorts, etc. Im not trying to front, I'm just saying I'm a decent player.

The guys I play with love to get together and play. We have a regular game that i've started about a year and a half ago. I used to come in first almost all the time. A big bet from me usually gets respect. I've always been one of the quieter players, cuz im really studying what's going on, calculating, reading tells, etc.. So my wins are pretty gracious to the other players, I never say, man that was a dumb call.. U get the idea.

Ok so here was my big mistake. During breaks I might offer some advice as to how some might have played a hand better, etc. 2 or 3 of the guys I've even sat down, and really really explained the power of position, hand selection, pot odds, books to get, etc.

Now I don't win all the time, but I finish in the money more than anyone else still.

In retrospect I would have rathered kept the info to myself, quietly smiled, raked in the pots, maybe bet a little less even when I had the nuts and enjoyed my quiet success. Hey this is about winning money and if u do it graciously with a smile and humbly with your friends and not put anyone on tilt, it's a great little extra income. I mean the stuff i ended up explaining to them was such a mystery until I spelled it all out for some of the guys. The running joke during the game is for someone to say to me.. ok what's the percentage of that happening?!

On a TINY TINY scale, i know how Dolye felt after he wrote his book and his secrets were out.. Keep in mind i typed TINY multiple times, im not comparing myself to the Texas Dolly.

If im a selfish ass for saying i wish i kept my mouth shut so be it. If u think im a coward for not welcoming more seasoned players.. hey i'll go to AC for that. Just be cool and chill when u play and keep ur strategies to yourself....

[SamIAm]

[ QUOTE ]
In retrospect I would have rathered kept the info to myself, quietly smiled, raked in the pots, maybe bet a little less even when I had the nuts and enjoyed my quiet success. Hey this is about winning money

[/ QUOTE ]
Teaching my friends how to play poker has improved my skills AMAZINGLY. I don't need practice playing against morons; I want better opponents for the home-games so I can get better at the cash games. Of my 10 "opponents", probably 5 have read WLLH, SSH, and ToP, all on my suggestion. I trained my friends to train me, and it's made the game WAY more fun, as well as earned me money (in the long run).

Keeping knowledge from your friends so you can continue to look down on them and take their money isn't just boring and weak. It's unprofitable.
-Sam

[Packerfan]

I,ve run into the same problem recently (never busting everyone out but wining quiet a bit) you could start contibuting in other ways like take some winings and buying the food or houch for the night or get creative and buy a new table, chips ect. guys wont mind losing if some dough goes baqck into the game

[jedi]

Bring beer. Drink with them.

[Richie Rich]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is that these are all my friends and I enjoy the company. Obviously the money is great but even if I were losing I'd still play.

[/ QUOTE ]
I understand that you like to play cards with your compadres on any given night. But if you were consistantly losing, as I'm sure some of your friends are, then it wouldn't be nearly as enjoyable as you think.


Some friendly suggestions from another home game player that wins 9/10 times:

* Try to play a little "looser" to give your opponents a chance to win their money back
* Don't play tight and sit on the money once you've won it...keep the money circulating

[jkwraw]

I don't win quite as much as you in my home game. I do win with the most frequency however. When I find myself up quite a bit over a few sessions I like to try different things to improve my game. Experiments, kind of. This will probably lead to you giving back some of that money, but getting experience with some "new tricks". At least that way, you're getting something for your money.

[cliff]

We had a similar problem in our game ($20NL) wherein a really bad player was cleaning up on some nasty suckouts. We instituted the rule thast if a player wins more than $100 profit, they bring a case of beer to the next game. In the long run this has also smoothed out irritations when a good player goes on a multigame tear, since there is at least free beer to bring people back.

[smoore]

[ QUOTE ]
We had a similar problem in our game ($20NL) wherein a really bad player was cleaning up on some nasty suckouts. We instituted the rule thast if a player wins more than $100 profit, they bring a case of beer to the next game. In the long run this has also smoothed out irritations when a good player goes on a multigame tear, since there is at least free beer to bring people back.

[/ QUOTE ]

P.O.T.D.

[W. Deranged]

This is good advice. One thing you can do is add variance to your game, and not badly hurt your bottom line. Start bullying people and giving of the impression of being a maniac. Wait until later streets to play well. What will happen is people will think you've loosened up and stopped playing so well (which you have) but won't realize your later street decisions are spot-on.

Your results will still be positive (if you're as better than your opponents as you seem to be) but you will start to have more losing sessions... (because you've increased variance). When you win, you'll win bigger, and that might bother people, but they'll also get to see you lose, which will do much to alleviate their frustration.

[Bill Bixby]

invite me to the game and you wont have this problem anymore... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[agar316]

Interesting feedback by all. Thank you. The most likely scenario will be to try tournaments. It'll be impossible to win them all right? /images/graemlins/wink.gif
And btw Bixby if you're ever in the Round Rock area on a Saturday there'll be a seat waitin for ya.
/images/graemlins/spade.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif AG /images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif

[AAeyes]

Try buying the beer... you can win millions off a guy and they'll always be happy to see you if you bring the beer.

[BigRedAce]

I just taught all my friends to play, told them what books to read and to check out twoplustwo. Hell, they're my friends . Now the competition is much more satisfying and fun and we go to the local cardrooms and crush the donks together.

So there's my advice. Loan them your books and you'll all get better together.

[fsumaverick]

I kick my frinds asses all the time. I usually flaunt their money, and buy expensive things the next day in their presence. It seems to work, because they're getting better. Nothing says, "your my bitch," more than wearing a watch they bought you to the next game.

[RedRum]

[ QUOTE ]
I kick my frinds asses all the time. I usually flaunt their money, and buy expensive things the next day in their presence. It seems to work, because they're getting better. Nothing says, "your my bitch," more than wearing a watch they bought you to the next game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I laughed out loud at work on this one! Damn I'm glad my boss is at lunch right now.

Drink More,
RedRum

[smoore]

[ QUOTE ]
I kick my frinds asses all the time. I usually flaunt their money, and buy expensive things the next day in their presence. It seems to work, because they're getting better. Nothing says, "your my bitch," more than wearing a watch they bought you to the next game.

[/ QUOTE ]

bahahahah! classic.

[dmoney]

You can always show ur cards everytime and TEACH your friends how to play,cause obviously they arnt that good. (i know some of them will think they are better) but maybe they want to get better as well. Start to teach them HOW you win.