A hand inspired by Ed Miller's post

[Sinnister]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this is premature, but I think that you make a very valid point. One thing that I have found of my game is that I play too tight -- if the flop doesn't hit me hard, I usually drop it. The result is that I don't win many hands, and quite frankly get bored playing. Yesterday, I started playing two tables at once, which I think has vastly improved my game -- because between the two tables I see quality cards more often, I feel less pressured to play marginal hands. In any case, here's a hand I just had...

Party $0.50/$1... not too loose, for a Party table

Hero is the SB, dealt 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

EP1 folds, EP2 limps, folded to CO who limps along with the button. Hero completes, and BB raises. Called by all except button, Hero calls.

The flop is: 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero checks, BB bets and is called around. Hero thinks about calling the gutshot straight for a moment, knowing that he was trained himself to let it go, however tempting it is. But then Hero thinks about Majorkong's post, and takes a look at the pot odds (around 12:1), and decides to call.

The turn: 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Sweet! Hero checks, BB bets, called around, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, folded to Hero who caps.

River: Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Crap, hope he didn't have A /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/spade.gif or something, but he has been playing as if he has a pocket pair. Hero bets out, BB calls.

Hero takes down $17.75. BB says, "y did you stay in?"

I don't want to get too excited about hitting a gutshot, but I will say this -- many books I have read say that when the competition gets looser, you have to just get tighter. When thinking about the math behind that, it doesn't make much sense. Perhaps tighter with your big cards, and looser with your draws?

All I know is that I took my fourth or fifth foray into online poker a couple days ago, after many failed attempts over the past year or so. I played tight and wasn't losing money, but wasn't making any either. Finally, I said, "All right, that's it, I need to stop playing like a total wuss." So I became more aggressive, loosened up just a little, and in the past 36 hours have just about doubled by bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sure this hand has been discussed thoroghly probably by u guys a few yrs ago but this hand intrigued me and was it played profitabley?

[mantasm]

yes, it was. what part did you have a question about?

[Sinnister]

Well, usually i have trouble in a spot like this. If i call the sb here and someone raises when it gets back to me i usually fold as if i am facing the same decision without having any money in. I have alot of trouble with blind play I am probably a little too tight in the blinds so that was the 1st part. Is calling 98o in the bb against a raise the right play with many ppl what odds do u need. Secondly i think the flop play was absolutely beautiful but was it mathematically correct to do so?

[karitek]

this really belongs in micro-limits - SS is for 2/4 and up.

anyhow, you shouldn't be folding for one bet when some raises you pre-flop.

and yes, the flop play was mathematically correct - by the time the action reaches you there are 14sb in the pot. You have 4 outs to your gutshot, and only need 10.5:1 odds to call. You are getting 14:1. You must call. Have you read Ed's new book and SSH?

[jba]

I'm not completing the SB with 89o and only three limpers. 5 maybe. same idea from the BB facing a raise -- I need a lot of limpers. You really want to be getting very good pot odds -- like 10:1 or 12:1 to see the flop with this marginal hand. as it is you're only getting about 8:1.

after BB raises, you of course must call

the flop is a pretty easy call getting 12:1 with a gutshot and two overs. this is definitely a question of pot odds, and anyone who tells you to always fold a gutshot is crazy. There will be times you will call a bet on the turn with just a gutshot and undercards, and rightfully so when pot odds dictate a call.

when the BB asks why you stayed in, just tell him you're good at hitting straights and they always seem to come in for you.

[mantasm]

I didn't even notice the preflop raise, but yeah it was probably ok to call getting 11:1 or whatever it was. On the flop he could probably give himself 3.5 outs for the gutshot, discounting one of the spades, and a couple for his overcards. The pot was big enough to call.

[meep_42]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, usually i have trouble in a spot like this. If i call the sb here and someone raises when it gets back to me i usually fold as if i am facing the same decision without having any money in.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absolutely terrible thinking. As SB, you're getting almost the same return on your money from a second bet as completing the first.

[ QUOTE ]
I have alot of trouble with blind play I am probably a little too tight in the blinds so that was the 1st part. Is calling 98o in the bb against a raise the right play with many ppl what odds do u need. Secondly i think the flop play was absolutely beautiful but was it mathematically correct to do so?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, Hero was getting 12:1 on a gutshot to the nuts. His spades could be no good, but I think the majority of the time they are fine. We'll call it 3.5 outs, conservatively, so he needs 12.43:1 to call. Hero will pick up .43 SB when he hits just about always (implied odds).

Also of note, the Hero closes the action.

-d