how effective are fake tells

[Little Fishy]

recently I've tried giving off false reads, I'll splash the pot all night when bluffing against non-thinkers (occasionally even getting snapped off and exposed), then when I'm in a hand with a thinker I'll splash the pot with the Nuts and hope they catch on and think that I'm bluffing, I've also tried doing this with how I put my cards on the table given dif holdings and even facial tics... never seems to work though... are my "thikning opponents" donks who don't pay attention??

has anyone had success giving off fake tells and then turning them around on solid players??

do you think it's a good idea to keep trying?? why or whynot?

[xniNja]

I'd quickly advise you to read through a bunch of past threads on this forum. One that comes to mind is a thread titled something like "How can I consciously improve my poker face."

Bottom line answer without going too far into an explanation: Don't give fake tells. The best players act the same when they are bluffing or holding the nuts. This is strategically, philosophically, and logically the best method of playing limit poker.

[Bodhi]

In a NL home game I sometimes make a huge bet with a flopped set because the thinking players will read me as having a marginal hand like TPGK and wanting to shut everyone out. They think this because they tend to bet small with their monsters (for fear of losing customers) far too frequently.

[Schwags]

Use fake tells against the players that think they are really good... Against a table full of solid players they will be onto it after playing 3 hands with you.

[xniNja]

Hey Bodhi... how can I get into this NL home game? hehe

Everyone else: false tells may have a place in NL against players who know to look for tells. They aren't easy to pull off and often are counterproductive in sending the wrong signals.

Don't use false tells in limit, it's a waste of time and almost always will be at best useless and at worse counterproductive. Any solid player will peg you for a fool & figure out your false tell strategy. They won't figure it out? Then how will your false tell work in the first place. Think about this just a sec... say you splash the chips a few times when you are bluffing- and someone notices it. Then you try to pull off a false tell, by splashing the chips when you've got a hand- they see this, and all of a sudden your splashing the pot no longer means anything, and it is likely it never did in the first place.

[Mikey]

People just don't pay attention. You are focusing on something that most people don't pay attention too. They really aren't donks for it.

The next time you splash the pot or think you are setting up a play, look around to the people who aren't involved in a hand to see if they are looking at the action and zoned in on you.

Most of the time ir they are staring at you they don't even know what they are looking for, they just stare, but most of the time they aren't even looking. They are just lost and this goes for limits as high as 20-40 as well.

[Jeebus]

I've managed to use fake tells pretty effectively but they only work occaisonally and took alot of building to create. I used to use the sigh on a bet or as a person is reaching for chips (ways to make my hand look weak) which proved rather effective. Guys thought they were catching tells on me. Then after about 3 games (doing it two or three times a night at the most) they all caught on. So then I switch to where I really am bluffing when I sigh, now everyone assumes that they have me beat by reading the tell.
Now they know that anything like that could be random, so by presenting a tell, either real or fake, it causes them to have to really think about what I am trying to do to them and ends up giving me a good read on their hand.

[bolgenmod]

[ QUOTE ]
In a NL home game I sometimes make a huge bet with a flopped set because the thinking players will read me as having a marginal hand like TPGK and wanting to shut everyone out. They think this because they tend to bet small with their monsters (for fear of losing customers) far too frequently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, but isn't this using betting patterns rather than tells? It's a great deceptive play (if it works) because you are, as they say, mixing up your game. But I think that betting patterns are not really what is usually meant by tells. For example, putting your chips forward in a certain manner is a tell; the number of chips you put forward is not.

That said, I think (and I'm not the only one: many books mention this) that betting patterns are more reliable than tells. Everyone tries to do the old weak when strong and vice versa, and frankly most people just can't act. Seriously. If Bodhi bet with a sigh in the hand he mentioned, I'd be more likely to put him on monster than if he bet big.

There are only two tells that I've found to be pretty reliable at the low-limit casino and home games I play. One is the rechecking of hole cards on a single-suited flop: "do I have the ace or the queen of that suit?" (Or worse!)

The other is the shaking hands with the monster. I myself still get this, but I can usually suppress it until after the hand. Not that anyone notices: I made a royal flush on the river at the casino, and two players kept raising me! One made a boat on the river, the other god-only-knows as he mucked after the third raise. Excellent! I could hardly stack my chips my hands were shaking so much. Nice work if you can get it.

[illiquid]

How bout this for a fake tell:

Next time you have the nuts and figure someone's hit a decent hand and has raised you, pretend to think about your hand for like 5 minutes or as long as it takes for the table to start complaining. Then go all-in.

You'd look like a total ass for doing it, but who wouldn't fall for that kind of act at least the first time?

[jgunnip]

I believe this tactic is called the 'Hollywood', hence the total act part of it. I think it works against weak and nonobservant opponents. Strangely enough those are the types of opponents, that I've seen in my experience, try to do the move themselves. Its a pretty easy move to pick up when an opponent is doing it, but its also very effective against the right players.