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SpaceAce
06-14-2005, 04:43 AM
Hm, I might have gotten just a touch out of line in here, somewhere.

A) I am not posting this because I think I played it well so don't bother telling me what a muppet I am.
B) Does anyone think I had the best hand?


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (2.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, BB calls.

River: (10.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB thinks... thinks... thinks... folds.


SpaceAce
Innocentius
06-14-2005, 04:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
B) Does anyone think I had the best hand?


[/ QUOTE ]

Possibly, but I think its quite likely that he has something like QT with a club.
SpaceAce
06-14-2005, 04:52 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
B) Does anyone think I had the best hand?


[/ QUOTE ]

Possibly, but I think its quite likely that he has something like QT with a club.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I suepect. After the hand, he mentioned needing another club. He's a pretty straightforward player so I don't think it's likely he bet the flop with just one non-nut club and nothing to go with it.

SpaceAce
GuyOnTilt
06-14-2005, 05:11 AM
Hey Space,

FWIW, I never complete with this PF, regardless of opponents.

GoT
SpaceAce
06-14-2005, 05:22 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Hey Space,

FWIW, I never complete with this PF, regardless of opponents.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? "Never complete" as in fold? I am not a big fan of KJ but against a blind and one typical weak limper... Thanks for the input.

Edit: Oh, yeah; bring back Strongbad. I hardly recognize you without him.

SpaceAce
Escape
06-14-2005, 05:27 AM
I'd raise pre flop. And you do not have the best hand when he 3 bets you..
GuyOnTilt
06-14-2005, 05:31 AM
No, I never complete as in I always raise.

GoT
SpaceAce
06-14-2005, 05:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
And you do not have the best hand when he 3 bets you..

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought as much at the time but later wondered if he could have had a monster draw of some sort. I think he probably had a pair, though.

SpaceAce
SpaceAce
06-14-2005, 05:36 AM
[ QUOTE ]
No, I never complete as in I always raise.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, good. I thought I was going crazy when I read your reply. I was kicking myself for not raising the instant I hit the "call" button.

SpaceAce
xniNja
06-14-2005, 05:55 AM
Completing with KJ is not so bad. KJ is weaker than what a lot of players would limp w. (KQ, AJ, etc.). Raising isn't bad either.
Answer to B) No, you didn't have the best hand.
aK13
06-14-2005, 06:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
KJ is weaker than what a lot of players would limp w. (KQ, AJ, etc.).

[/ QUOTE ]

1. You give them too much credit.
2. They should be (open)raising with these hands regardless of position.
xniNja
06-14-2005, 06:15 AM
Just speaking from what I've experienced in on-line games (granted 3/6 to 10/20 usually) and what most books recommend.
aK13
06-14-2005, 06:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Just speaking from what I've experienced in on-line games (granted 3/6 to 10/20 usually) and what most books recommend.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the amount of garbage most players limp UTG from my experience, I am raising here and taking my chances every time.
xniNja
06-14-2005, 06:19 AM
I'm not saying a raise is wrong... I mean, if I'm dealt KQ under the gun... somewhere between ~40-50% of the time I'll raise, and the other 50-60% I'll just call... maybe you'd think this is a mistake, but even if so, I think many players play similarly.
SpaceAce
06-14-2005, 06:30 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying a raise is wrong... I mean, if I'm dealt KQ under the gun... somewhere between ~40-50% of the time I'll raise, and the other 50-60% I'll just call... maybe you'd think this is a mistake, but even if so, I think many players play similarly.

[/ QUOTE ]

To put in my two cents, I've done a great deal of experimenting with AJ and KQ and after considering everything, I'm open-raising them both 100% of the time from all positions.

SpaceAce
aK13
06-14-2005, 06:51 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying a raise is wrong... I mean, if I'm dealt KQ under the gun... somewhere between ~40-50% of the time I'll raise, and the other 50-60% I'll just call... maybe you'd think this is a mistake, but even if so, I think many players play similarly.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't need to raise 50%, limp 50% at this level. They won't be aware enough to notice what you've been raising with, probably won't even notice you don't play many hands. I also believe it is the general concensus that it is the superior play to raise KQo and AJo in EP every time.