To Bet or Not To Bet 5/10

[craze9]

Online 5/10, I sat down just a few hands before.

MP limps, I make it 40 to go on the button w/ A /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB (Villain) calls. I've never seen this player before, but he has a stack (3.2k). I have 1.2k. BB folds and we take the flop 3-handed.

T /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Checked to me and I bet 80 into 130 pot. SB min raises, BB folds, I call.

Turn: T /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB checks quickly. To bet or not to bet?

To me his minraise/check seemed weak. I bet 200. He pauses for a moment, then calls.

River: 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

He checks again.

You...?

[flawless_victory]

allin.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

[ QUOTE ]
allin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I'm not capable of a move like that. Haha.

[AZK]

too easy, unless you do it a lot. I like 3/4 pot/pot...

[Mikey]

Fold to the flop checkraise, if a spade hits the turn you are not getting paid off.

[cjmewett]

[ QUOTE ]
I like 3/4 pot/pot...

[/ QUOTE ]Unless I missed something, all-in here is $800 into an $850 pot. Doesn't make much sense to fire $600 and keep $200 back.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold to the flop checkraise, if a spade hits the turn you are not getting paid off.

[/ QUOTE ]youre getting nearly 5:1 immediate odds and closing the action.do you see why folding is a very bad play?

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
allin.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a little late for that, that was the turn move.

[Imperial]

From the flop you have had 3 chances to win the pot. First he minraised you. Then he called you. Then you missed your draw. Give this one up and wait for a new hand (your A high might be good)...

[craze9]

Moving in on the turn is a play I would never make, and I think it's very bad.

The pot is $450. With what hands might any good player bet $1000 into this pot given the board?

If I had AA or an overpair, I wouldnt move in, because all worse hands would fold and I would most likely be called by a set or a made flush. If I had a made flush or a set, why would I want to put maximum pressure on my opponent to fold?

Moving in on the turn is a massive overbet that doesn't represent any specific hand. It's an unconvincing bluff that puts 1k at risk to win $450.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
(your A high might be good)...

[/ QUOTE ]veryveryvery unlikely.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
If I had AA or an overpair, I wouldnt move in, because all worse hands would fold and I would most likely be called by a set or a made flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't have an overpair. You have ace high. If he's only calling with a set or better, then lots of better hands will fold.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I had AA or an overpair, I wouldnt move in, because all worse hands would fold and I would most likely be called by a set or a made flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't have an overpair. You have ace high. If he's only calling with a set or better, then lots of better hands will fold.

[/ QUOTE ]DING DING DING!
ok craze... tell me why betting $200 on the turn is bettr than betting 400? why is betting 400 better/worse than allin?

[108suited]

"SB checks quickly. To bet or not to bet?"

I think a check will be more profitable in the long run, but a bet isn't a bad idea to use along with the check play. Just a rough estimate a bet here 25% of the time and a check 75% seems decent for an estimate of what I might do. But, if you are going to bet, I would bet more. You have Ace high, and so when you bet the turn I like a higher bet to increase your fold equity.

How would you have liked it if you were check raised all-in on the turn? That seems to happen fairly regularly in the games I play in situations similar to this.

River: 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

He checks again.

"You...?

[/ QUOTE ]"

Most of the time, give it up. Or maybe fire out a pot sized or 1/2 pot sized bet from time to time to mix up your play.

[craze9]

I was trying to illustrate that I, and I think many good players, would never move in here with a strong hand. Maybe you would. I hope it works well for you. But the point is that it is not a believable bet; it may get many hands to fold, but only weak hands--sets, flushes, even two pair will most probably call, reading the huge overbet as an overpair, AK w/ /images/graemlins/spade.gif, or a bluff.

One of the reasons I posted this hand is because I had difficulty putting the villain on a specific holding. His min checkraise/ turn check was, to me, incomprehensible and rather stupid.

So, flawless victory, to satisfy your curiosity (or is it self-assured didacticism?), my bet was intended to A) give me a chance of winning the pot, B) build a bigger pot against mediocre hands and C) gain information about my opponent's hand.

Betting 400 is a viable option. But at the time, and now, I think 200 is better. For one thing, I'm not confident about what Villain has. He could be attempting another checkraise w/ a very strong hand or he could have chickened out w/ a medium holding or he even could have misclicked the flop. Whether I bet 200 or 400, if he raises, I will fold. In the latter case, I will have cost myself 200 extra dollars.

If Villain calls and does not raise, I put him on a medium/weak holding. Now, I assume from your post that you think betting 400 is more likely to get a fold than betting 200, and perhaps this is true. But is that really a case for betting 400?. The possibility that Villain may call 200 w/ weak hands that he would have folded to a 400 bet is actually a good thing, considering that I 1) have 14 outs to beat most one pair hands and 2) intend to make a large bet on the river if it blanks.

Note that if he calls the turn, I will have created either an 850 pot or a 1250 pot. One of those pots is a size that I can bluff at with my remaining stack. Can you figure out which one?

Moving all in is, in my humble opinion, idiotic poker. In none of your posts did you mention what you think the Villain has, so I have to assume that your reasoning is basically "put him all in and hope he doesnt have a strong hand." I believe the answer to whether he has a strong hand can be adequately answered by betting 200.

[Mikey]

5 to 1 if you odds of hitting were 4 to 1,
but with this type of action you probably a 6 to 1.

Reduce your outs based on the action.