why is everyone ripping Daniel N? why not Barry G too?

[PokerPaul]

Both of them very good players with big BR's.

Both of them could find easier less risky propositions but at this point its all about bragging rights and "being a man".


Daniel keeps getting critized, but why not BArry? is he that much better? Or is his BR that much bigger?

[ggbman]

It's overdone, but the rational in that Daniel is the one who declared he would play anyone anytime for huge amounts of money.

[kenberman]

b/c Daniel is outwardly obnoxious, and Barry usually isn't

[Russ McGinley]

I, for one, like Daniel. I've never met him but he *seems* like a nice enough guy. However he is also a young millionaire and his head has probably grown a little too big. I remember when Venus Williams first hit the tennis scene, she put out some ridiculous challenge that she could beat any male player ranked 200 or below in the world, and she played some guy nobody's ever heard of and he beat the piss out of her and she complained about him hitting too hard and blah blah blah and that was the end of that.

Daniel gets attacked a lot on here because:
A. His (perceived) constant ragging of 2+2/Sklansky
B. The people who post on his blog/forum are basically his servants and since he rags on 2+2/Sklansky, so will they
C. Most of us are jealous of him, whether they will admit to it or not
D. Daniel keeps saying after his matches how unlucky he got and bad beats, etc.
E. In this current case, Barry G. is a well-respected poster on these forums, and even posts/answers questions in the hell-hole known as the WPT forum

I suspect that if Daniel were to play a match against a truly disliked poker player (Fischman, Boyd, Hellmuth, etc.), a lot more people would be rooting for Daniel.

[BadVoodooX]

There are several reasons why Daniel has recieved most of the criticism.

#1 Daniel's challenge is openended, Barry's situation is fixed. Barry knows he will only be playing Daniel and the mixed format is Barry's regular format in the big game. Daniel left his challenge open to everyone so he could soon be facing a lineup of the world's best at their best games, an entirely different situation than Barry's.

#2 As the guy who bet DN that he would lose a # of of his challenges pointed out, DN has a million distrations going on right now, which Barry doesn't seem to have unless he has more work going on his book than he's letting on.

#3. Barry's bankroll probably is larger than DN's.

None of this is a denigration of DN's ability in any way, but he could be the best overall player in the world and I'd still be inclined to think he's setting himself up for a fall with this format.

[Kevmath]

Also, I don't ever recall Barry writing about: a guy trying to sell him leather jackets, Golden Tee, their video game, a failed online poker site, or black gay prostitutes, among other items.

Kevin...

[Hold'me]

Daniel Negreanu's the man, so is Barry Greenstein. Enough said.

[GrannyMae]

[ QUOTE ]

#3. Barry's bankroll is much larger than DN's.

[/ QUOTE ]


fyp

[Klepton]

barry is very professional

[SoftcoreRevolt]

Because Barry is cool and invited everyone on the forums over to his house for a cook out. I had two cheese burgers on grinder rolls.

[KneeCo]

[ QUOTE ]
Daniel Negreanu's the man, so is Barry Greenstein. Enough said.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Michael C.]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I don't ever recall Barry writing about: a guy trying to sell him leather jackets, Golden Tee, their video game, a failed online poker site, or black gay prostitutes, among other items.

Kevin...

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhm, that's his web blog, so why should he be criticized for writing whatever's on his mind? I don't see how that is selling anything to anybody. Not interested? Don't read it. But I respect him for writing honestly about whatever's on his mind, and don't see why people should criticize him for that.

[LLKOOLK1]

Barry is professional?....he was the one who made this entire situation open to the public by shooting off at the mouth on Cardplayers video brodcast. He accused top tourney players of being weak, and invited them to play the big game and see if they could beat it. Negreanu did the same, by inviting all to come and challenge him. I dont think Barry, talking down to all tournement players, is any more professional than negreanu. Let them settle it on the felt and play it out. The professinal way would have been to simply sit down at the Wynn and play, whoever finds out about it can talk amungst themselves, but this back and forth silliness is getting a little out of control on both sides.
I belive that greenstein may be more well suited for large cash ring games, and that daniel may be a tough opponent with his HU experience and aggresiveness, I would like to see negreanu win the matches 5-4...

[FMThe2nd]

This bickering back and forth between Berry and Danny reminds me of an episode of the Simpsons:

[Homer hits a home run in softball]
Bart: Homer, can I get you a beer?
Lisa: No, I want to get him a beer.
Homer: Kids, kids, kids! You can each get me a beer.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
why is everyone ripping Daniel N? why not Barry G too?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably because most here feels BG is taking a good wager and DN is taking a poor one.

[Wes ManTooth]

[ QUOTE ]
This bickering back and forth between Berry and Danny reminds me of an episode of the Simpsons:

[Homer hits a home run in softball]
Bart: Homer, can I get you a beer?
Lisa: No, I want to get him a beer.
Homer: Kids, kids, kids! You can each get me a beer.

[/ QUOTE ]

That about sums it up perfectly

[CrazyN8]

[ QUOTE ]
E. In this current case, Barry G. is a well-respected poster on these forums, and even posts/answers questions in the hell-hole known as the WPT forum

[/ QUOTE ]

Who does he post as?

[Russ McGinley]

barryg1

[invictus]

I know it's hardly to the point, but I have never heard of the Venus Williams incident mentioned above. Did it really happen?

[flo]

[ QUOTE ]



Daniel keeps getting critized, but why not BArry? is he that much better? Or is his BR that much bigger?

[/ QUOTE ]
Both.

[Smoothcall]

Pretty good answer.

[Smoothcall]

Besides what russ said it is also because he claims to be a great live player when it is unproven. While Barry has been doing it for years and has proven his ability in the big games. Daniel may have an argument if he says he is one of the better tournament players around. But best poker players? Live included? Not proven. Doesn't mean he won't be someday possibly. You never know he is young. But to just say he is because he has enough money to play it once in awhile doesn't make it so.

[Kyo Souma II]

[ QUOTE ]
Barry is professional?....he was the one who made this entire situation open to the public by shooting off at the mouth on Cardplayers video brodcast. He accused top tourney players of being weak, and invited them to play the big game and see if they could beat it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did he actually invite them? I missed that.

This was hardly the first salvo in the lame war of words. If you've been paying attention, you'd know that most of the hot air started on the FCP forums when Daniel refuted the claim, that Barry never actually made, that he (bg) was definitely the winningest cash game player in the past decade.

Barry also replied to an e-mail I wrote. I've raised some (IMO) valid points in some of DN's threads that he's ignored.

I think his challenge was just him being too confident for his own good. It didn't seem particularly cocky to me, though. I think that is the element of the situation that gets overblown the most. The dude seems pretty modest, as if he actually believes everything he says to be true. I don't get that vibe off DN. 'Too much gamesmanship.' He still has some adjusting to the public eye to do.
-kyo

[Kyo Souma II]

Daniel has been downplaying the wynn's contributions to his bankroll and inflating every egotistical statement Barry makes. He likes to remind us of how insane Barry is at any chance, and has taken similar shots at DS with regards to the challenge.

The FCP forums also kinda multiply my sentiments, albeit irrationally. DN has too many blind fanpeople for my liking.

[BlackGoat]

Because Barry G is one sexy, sexy man.

[Yeti]

I know I speak for the rest of 2+2 when I say how grateful we are to have these members on board who are obvious experts on the size of each player's bankroll.

[grass]

[ QUOTE ]
I know I speak for the rest of 2+2 when I say how grateful we are to have these members on board who are obvious experts on the size of each player's bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're welcome.

[Klepton]

[ QUOTE ]
Because Barry G is one sexy, sexy man.

[/ QUOTE ]

and he has the voice of barry white with the face of a white guy

[wray]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I don't ever recall Barry writing about: a guy trying to sell him leather jackets, Golden Tee, their video game, a failed online poker site, or black gay prostitutes, among other items.


I doubt you will ever see Barry write about that stuff. There's no doubt they're different type of people. IMHO both very good people but very different.

[Beavis68]

[ QUOTE ]
Besides what russ said it is also because he claims to be a great live player when it is unproven.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is flat out wrong, Daniel has played high stakes ring as his bread and butter for years. He has always been a ring player first.

My problem with Daniel is that he has one really good tournament year, and it has gotten to his head. Reading his articles, he doesn't seem to have a sound understanding of poker theory, and makes up theories to justify his plays that are clearly -EV.

Daniel has a good gut instinct and plays he players well. HE also, as he has said, has a lot of gamble.

[Russ McGinley]

[ QUOTE ]
I know it's hardly to the point, but I have never heard of the Venus Williams incident mentioned above. Did it really happen?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and to clarify, it was actually BOTH Williams sisters who challenged anyone. Some guy played them both and beat them both one set apiece, then they modified their challenge and said any male lower than 350 (the guy that beat them was like 203 or something).

The correlation is that both Negreanu and the Williams sisters (at the time) were both very arrogant about their game and apparently felt the need to prove that they could beat anybody, and in the Williams' case, they were pretty quickly grounded back to Earth and I wonder if Daniel loses more matches than he wins if the same thing will happen.

[Smoothcall]

If live poker has been his bread and butter for years why has he gone broke so many times losing huge sums of money aquired through tournaments? People keep saying its his bread and butter. But until he hit these big tournies in last year and half or so there was no bread to butter.

[Kyo Souma II]

[ QUOTE ]
If live poker has been his bread and butter for years why has he gone broke so many times losing huge sums of money aquired through tournaments? People keep saying its his bread and butter. But until he hit these big tournies in last year and half or so there was no bread to butter.

[/ QUOTE ]

When has he written about going broke in the past 3 years?

-kyo

[Jim T]

Here's the story on the Williams Sisters match, as told by the male tennis player:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4247242-103977,00.html

"Preparation is crucial. Remember that a game like this is light-hearted - taking it too seriously would be a mistake. My training regime consisted of a leisurely round of golf in the morning followed by a couple of shandies. I turned up on court feeling suitably laid-back.

My first game of the afternoon, just a one-set match, was against Serena. A hint: try and play your match somewhere quiet, where you're not going to be pestered by big crowds or lots of press - we were out on one of the back courts at Melbourne Park, No 17 I think it was. I felt so relaxed that I didn't even warm up properly. We started playing and I raced into a 5-0 lead.

At this point Venus turned up to watch. She had just finished a press conference after a quarter-final loss against Lindsey Davenport. In the end I won my game against Serena 6-1 but by the time we were at the net shaking hands, Venus was on court, ready to have a go against me as well. The game against Venus was very similar. I ended up winning 6-2."

[Shaun]

Because Barry G. is the WPT board's hero of the moment.

[Shaun]

Or because two plus two's membership consists of numerous gay prostitutes who were secretly offended by Daniel's obviously insensitive remarks.

[NoRiverRats]

To answer your question, people here are harder on Daniel because his life is more open to the public, his blog tells all. As a result, everyone with an opinion, well informed or not, feels comfortable commenting.(Which frankly is fair, if Daniel doesn't want the compliments and criticisms, he should stop publishing his life story on the web.

Barry doesn't let is all hang out on the web, we know less about him and his life, only what he wants to tell whomever is intervewing him. Believe me, if he had a blog people here and elsewhere would be talking/posting about it.

[gojacketz]

Haha, Russ, you make me laugh:


In 1998 both Serena and Venus were beaten easily in one practice set each by chain-smoking German doubles specialist Karsten Braasch on an Australian Open practice court. The Williams sisters were hanging out in the ATP office, boasting how they could beat the No. 200-ranked man, when in walked the No. 203-ranked Braasch. According to onlookers, Braasch delighted in slicing, dicing, and drop-shotting the sisters, who were not well-acquainted with opponents that had more in their arsenal than a hard flat forehand and backhand. Braasch beat Serena 6-1, and Venus 6-2.

That made my day...

Gojacketz

[Smoothcall]

i don't know the exact dates but years ago 3 or 4 or 5 it was reported that he was broke and in debt to his friends. This was after many big tournament wins. So where did all that money go? And i believe he has stated this himself too. I don't know 100 percent if he said he went broke. But he at least said he went through most of the hundereds of thousands he had. He blamed it on his old girlfriend bothering him to come home while he was playing. And his drinking. He worte this article in cardplayer.

[Russ McGinley]

I was indifferent to the Williams sisters before this "challenge". This made me hate them. Venus' decline into mediocrity has made me indifferent to them again.

[PokerPaul]

i just don't understand what they both would have to prove.

Both of them are already considered argueably the 2 best poker players in the world. Dan N for tounreys, BArry for cash games. They are already at the very top, both in terms of results, and public perception.

So what more are they gonna gain by this by risking their hard earned BR against each other.

[SumZero]

[ QUOTE ]
i just don't understand what they both would have to prove.

Both of them are already considered argueably the 2 best poker players in the world. Dan N for tounreys, BArry for cash games. They are already at the very top, both in terms of results, and public perception.

So what more are they gonna gain by this by risking their hard earned BR against each other.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well they both are getting +EV fame points for playing this. In some ways it would have been a smart move to decide to do this challenge (and split the money) in the Coke vs. Pepsi split the market and eliminate all competition way. Poker is huge now (obviously). With the WSOP events having huge fields it is unlikely anyone will dominate or have many final table appearances and by playing this high profile challenge they are filling the void and being the top story in poker. So they get better coverage by playing this type of high stakes challenge.

[JohnG]

[ QUOTE ]
The professinal way would have been to simply sit down at the Wynn and play, whoever finds out about it can talk amungst themselves

[/ QUOTE ]

That would defeat the purpose of the exercise.

I would guess Negreanu is nothing more than a paid stooge working on behalf of the poker industry.