QQ in Big Blind

[pokerbo]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. CO posts a blind of $4.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG folds, MP3 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (5.66 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls.

River: (7.66 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 7.66 BB

I've been reading this forum for months now, thought it was time for me to post a hand..

I find this situation quite tricky.. I've picked up QQ in the BB against 3 other limpers and an Ace on the flop. I would like to hear your views on this hand, I think I played it too aggressive and then on the river to passive??

When I check the river if the CO raises should I fold??

[Cumulonimbus]

Looks pretty standard to me. I don't like checking the flop or turn, but I think it's fair to give up on the river, especially since it's a diamond.

[jay1313]

I play this hand the same way, if you are ahead, he is going to fold, if you are behind he will call or worse raise. I don't see any value in betting this.

[Argus]

To answer your question of whether there is any value in a river call if CO bets, I think there is. But only because that jack could help a lot of hands and CO could certainly be bluffing at such a juicy card.

[jay1313]

This is one of those hands where I have a hard time agreeing with Ed Miller (or a lot of posters here). The phrase if it is good enough to call, it is good enough to bet just doesn't seem to work in cases like this. Although I doubt that if you are raised if you bet out that the player is bluffing the flush I still find it hard not to call that one bet back (this case may be easier with the overcard). I would like to see this showdown and have found enough players willing to bluff at this pot on the river when they have position. I am sure someone can explain the math better then I can why you can bet and either call one back or fold but I can't. This is an area I still struggle with.

[Argus]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an area I still struggle with.

[/ QUOTE ]
Read the chapter "Headsup on the End" in Theory of Poker by David Sklansky.

[billyjex]

These situations always suck but you played it fine.

I would call a river bet. I think often enough someone will bet their middle pair/bluff when you show weakness to make a call good.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
These situations always suck but you played it fine.

I would call a river bet. I think often enough someone will bet their middle pair/bluff when you show weakness to make a call good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why aren't we betting here? I don't understand. Hero is only getting raised by an ace or a flush, neither of which we beat. I'd hate the check-call here. Help.

[Argus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
These situations always suck but you played it fine.

I would call a river bet. I think often enough someone will bet their middle pair/bluff when you show weakness to make a call good.

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Why aren't we betting here? I don't understand. Hero is only getting raised by an ace or a flush, neither of which we beat. I'd hate the check-call here. Help.

[/ QUOTE ]
You check/call to induce a bluff and because there are very few lesser hands that call a bet, but more lesser hands that will bet if you check hoping to pick up the pot. Betting and having an opponent fold a lesser hand has no value.

[macdona1]

If you decide to continue after the flop you must play your hand aggressively all the way through, because you are obviously looking to make your flush. You have to commit yourself so that if you make your flush, you must play it aggresively after you make it. I believe you played this hand a little too defensively, you should have either folded the flop, or pushed hard the entire way.

[Argus]

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If you decide to continue after the flop you must play your hand aggressively all the way through, because you are obviously looking to make your flush.

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What's obvious about this? Why should you play aggressively while chasing a backdoor flush?

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You have to commit yourself so that if you make your flush, you must play it aggresively after you make it.

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/images/graemlins/confused.gif

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I believe you played this hand a little too defensively, you should have either folded the flop, or pushed hard the entire way.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why bet the river? Why fold the flop?

No offense, but this is pretty bad advice based on logic that will lead you astray in many situations.

[brettbrettr]

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Betting and having an opponent fold a lesser hand has no value.

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Of course, but my first thought was that there are a good number of hands that call down here: mid PP's, 9's.

But I also have a habit wanting to drive the action and in this case I think you may be right.