77 in the money 30+3

[schwza]

30+3 on party. 69 left out of 840, top 90 paid. we're just finishing my second orbit at the table. i got moved in just when hand-for-hand started at 100 people.

despite my short stack, i was the most active player during hand for hand. i raised pre-flop 4 times previously, taking one down on the flop and stealing the other 3. the bubble has now burst.

blinds 500/1000, i have 11.7k. villain BB has 22k. he stole successfully once each orbit.

folded to me in MP1 with 77. i raise to 2300. BB raises to 4000. what's my plan?

[HonchoOverload]

call and fold to his all in bet if you don't spike a set or a legitimate straight draw. If he checks a flop you miss, check along with him.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
call and fold to his all in bet if you don't spike a set or a legitimate straight draw. If he checks a flop you miss, check along with him.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, that's what i did (comments still appreciated on this part though).

flop (2 players, 8.5k): 4 4 T r

he checks, i check.

turn (2, 8.5k): 4 4 T Q r

he bets 2.3k and i have 7.7k left. my plan?

[HonchoOverload]

I fold to that bet. At best he has AK and has 10 outs against your hand. At worst, he has TT or QQ and you're drawing totally dead.

[woodguy]

Thank him for the free card and fold.

Regards,
Woodguy

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank him for the free card and fold.

Regards,
Woodguy

[/ QUOTE ]

then what was my plan going into the hand? just play for a set? i don't have the odds to do that, and it's almost certain that he'll bet at some point during the hand, so i don't think i should mentally add much value to the possibilities of just showing down 77 unimproved. and even if the board had been less scary, i'm mostly worried about stacking off against an overpair (although i guess AQ is possible).

i actually called the turn. the river was a brick, and i folded for another 2.7k.

i think i played the hand pretty badly but i'm not sure how i should've played it. i might have folded pre-flop but i was at table 3 (meaning it would get broken when there were 20 left) and i thought it would kill my FE.

[A_PLUS]

I think I am getting my money in on the flop here. Given a reasonable range of hands for the BB, you are still ahead. Your image has to be very laggy, I would think AT+, and 55+ is a very reasonable range.

My question would be, if you arent jamming that flop, why call the raise at all?

[Sam T.]

77 with 11.7 BB is tough. Smaller, and you push, of course, and larger you can think about limping. With a burst bubble, I might limp here and see what develops. Raising is good as well, but a re-raise is rough.

I like the call pre-flop. I don't think a push is going to fold him out, and I'm not sure I fancy a race at this point.

My first inclination was to play the flop more aggressively, as there is over 8k out there. If he's on a ten or overpair, you're busted (just ask Shaniac), but if not, he's going to have a tough, tough time calling.

I thought about it more, and decided that the only hands that seem likely for him beat yours. He makes a pre-flop raise that he knows will be called, despite the fact that he will be out of position for the rest of the hand. He then checks, which could be a whiff, but if that were the case I would usually expect a bet here to try to take down the pot. He's trying for a check-raise.

With a check behind, you are essentially giving up on the hand unless you hit your two outer. I hate calling the turn bet. If you are going to play, push, but folding is the right play.

Sam

[HonchoOverload]

The implied odds are through the roof if you hit a set and he has an overpair. That's what makes up for the lack of pot odds.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
then what was my plan going into the hand? just play for a set? i don't have the odds to do that

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you do.

Originally you raise to create an impression of strength to either take the blinds or have a caller fold to a continuation bet, or if you improve, find a way to get an opponent to stack off, but with 77 I usually want to be scooping chips by the end of my flop bet if unimproved.

Then BB re-pops for almost the minimum, looks like a pot building bet, so I give him credit for a good hand, two big cards, maybe paired.

You now have to call 1700 into a pot of 6800, or 4-1, I think this in enough coupled with the implied odds to fish for a set, as well as out play him if he makes a mistake.

Flop comes paired and rainbow, and BB doesn't lead out.

I now give him credit for an over pair as I would expect overcards to bet to chase you off, an overpair is much more comfortable with this flop.

You check behind taking the free card, turn bricks and he puts in a weak lead, still stinks of an overpair so I'm done.

If he leads on this flop I may re-raise all in, but his check scares me way more than a bet does on the flop.

edit: If he leads the flop I push

Regards,
Woodguy

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
The implied odds are through the roof if you hit a set and he has an overpair. That's what makes up for the lack of pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

my call costs 1.7k. if i flop a set and stack him, i win the 8k in the pot + another 7k = 15k. i flop the set 1/8.5. if i always stack him when i flop a set, the call is barely +chipEV at 15k - 8.5*1.7k = 0.5k. but sometimes when i flop a set, he'll flop a bigger one, sometimes i won't get paid off, etc etc etc. it's not profitable to only play for set value.

[Rduke55]

I probably would have folded pf but I think seeing the flop is OK.
Would firing out a flop bet here be awful?

More I look at it, the checking on a low paired flop screams overpair. I think you're right not to bet because unless you're pushing it's probably not gonna do what you want it to do. And the turn bet seems like milking. Either way the turn sucks and folding it was correct IMO.