what makes a tough game?

[bernie]

when one first thinks of this, im sure they think of higher limits with tough/know everything players...but is this always the toughest for certain players? or just tough for players who know how to adjust to different textures?

many players of higher limits have alot of trouble playing LL because they forget/never learned how to adjust to that texture of a table...wouldnt this make a LL table a 'tough' table for this type of player?

many on here advocate beating a smaller game before moving up....which is fine, in a bankroll sense. but playing a higher limit isnt necesarily going to make you able to beat a LL game. the textures can be quite different...

add to that the difference in psychological/mental energy and coping with certain types of players. ie..one may not be able to handle the swings and badbeats in a LL game. we've all heard the table coach guy who berates another players terrible plays. which represents he really doesnt understand the game, else why complain? but many of these type of players may fare well in a game where players are a little more knowledgeable and predictable...therefore, the LL 'suckout' game is tough for him. both tactically and psychologically...to where the higher game is tougher for some because players are thinking more, but they dont have the badbeat factor as much to deal with...

i think the tougher games are where the players know how to play many different styles/textures...and the difference between beating a higher limit, tighter game, may be equally as hard to beat for some as a loose, chasing LL game....add to those the wild cap happy games...

i think it depends on the player and their knowledge/experience how they rank each of these in 'toughness'.

again, just because you can beat a higher, 'tougher' game, doesnt mean youll have an easy time of it with a LL 'gravy' game. and vice versa....if you dont know how to adjust...

thoughts welcome....

b

[Ed Miller]

For me, a tough game is one in which several players at the table a) don't make many preflop errors, and b) play in an unpredictable (and usually aggressive) style after the flop.

[pufferfish]

Well, except for an hour or so at a $5/$10 game, I've never played higher than $1/$2. So, maybe I'm not qualified to reply.

The games that I find the toughest are ones that are kinda tight pre-flop, but very passive post flop. Basically, the ones that stay are calling stations. They'll stay in the hand with bottom pair and hit their kicker on the river. Seems like I'm the only one at the table that can't win with "just" top pair.

Oh well, guess I'd like some cheese with that whine. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

c ya,
pf

[bernie]

remember, anyone is qualified to reply....which is how i structured the post...tough means different to different players...

some higher limit guys may not admit that they think that a LL game is tough 'for them'. they rather make excuses about the players playing bad. or they play differently because the chips are worth less than theyre used to playing for...

so in effect, if youre beating LL, you may be a better player on that type of table than a higher limit guy who plays in what you might consider tougher tables...make sense? your beating a game thats actually tough for him, and maybe vice versa....

meaning, it's not the limit that matters at all, but youre ability/knowledge to adjust to different textures....

so a tough table also can have the factors of how the limit effects you psychologically. if the monetary value creeps in thus affecting your game. making a game you may very well be able to beat tougher...

many players will think higher limit games are much tougher than they actually are. IMO, they are, for the most part, tougher, but not by as much as many think...

if you saw a table that had a bunch of idiots on it, the only real consideration for play would be your roll, wouldnt it?

that happened to me once...i went to my local room and saw a 15-30 game going that was absolutely gravy. but i didnt have $750 to play in it, so i had to pass....note i can play on that table, outclassing the field, but still lose...my roll wouldve taken a bigger hit than i wanted to risk that day...so i ended up playing a smaller game against somewhat better players...but my risk was much more palpable...

b

[pufferfish]

Yea bernie, that $5/$10 game was one of the best I've ever been in. It was a Sunday evening after a holiday or something. Many of the players were in a gamboling mood, fish even for me.

Too bad my attitude was screwed up, the only reason I was there in the first place.

I was up like $400 before I blew it all back. Man, I was mad because my BR was shrinking and that would have saved me. If I had left it would have been my biggest win ever. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

[D.J.]

The definition of a tough game is obviously different for everyone. For me there are a few tough games, the toughest is where you sit down at a table full of excellent players no matter what the limit and have to really grind to turn a small profit. Another is the one you mentioned LL games. Typically I do not fare very well in these, it's just become harder to adjust as I play mostly 15 and up now. If I had $500 left in my name to play with I would take my 1 rack in 15-30 over 5 racks in 4-8. Another tough game for me which is very rare is when players play so damn tight and passive that it makes them tough to read. I'm talking about the guy who flops a set of 8's to an uncoordinated rainbow board and is afraid to bet it for fear of someone having a higher set, and just calling you down betting your top pair the whole way, or when grandma limps in utg w/AA when you've got KQ and hit your Q, you bet it the whole way and grandma check-calls you on every street then turns over her rockets and you want to pull your hair out. But for the most part I don't have to worry about any of these types of games and usually feel comfortable and confident playing in any mid-limit game.

-D.J.

[bernie]

do you also see, whether in your own play or others, that this can also be attributed to playing a certain texture for extended period of sessions? meaning, because youre playing one texture regularly, the skills for others may deteriorate a little. thus it may take some time to remember how to play the new texture both tactically and psychologically. not saying one isnt good enough to beat them, but their just not conditioned to this type of game...

make sense?

b