Dealing with cheaters in a homegame...

[henrikrh]

We play a small 7-8 person home game, and two aussies, who we know well outside of school play with us, one is a LAG and really sucks, the other is so fishy deoderant couldn't keep the wet market smell away. Anyways, we have caught little hints of them cheating before, though they don't do it well, this time however we outright saw one show the other his hand whilst both still had hands.

At the time we mucked both their hands (one had shown 77 to the other to tell him to fold), and one of us got up to cash out, pissed that they tried to cheat, we played for about twenty minutes more and the all cashed out. I cashed last and there was a small sum missing, having won loads in the past I didn't complain, but just more shadiness.

Anyways, how would you treat these guys? On one hand, they pay off, on the other they are liable to cheat. We are considering not playing with them again.

[dedmoney]

um, if you let them play, you're a moron, no mattter how badly they suck.

[Lottery Larry]

I agree- why encourage their behavior, even if they are ATMs?

It's not them I'd be worried about, but the message that gets sent to the group as a whole.

[jafager]

Bad players get better, but cheaters rarely turn into model citizens.

jafager

[tubalkain]

Let them play, continue your regular withdrawals, and never seat them close enough to each other that they can cheat?

[henrikrh]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree- why encourage their behavior, even if they are ATMs?

It's not them I'd be worried about, but the message that gets sent to the group as a whole.

[/ QUOTE ]


The whole group know is the us i'm referring to, we are all considering not letting them play, we are all against cheating. They suck at it though and there is no way they are gonna make it profitable, we do sometimes ensure that they end up sitting apart.


"um, if you let them play, you're a moron, no mattter how badly they suck. " -dedmoney

Thanks for this totally unnecesary and pointless comment.

[EMcWilliams]

If they are your friends, I would definately talk to them first. Even if they are not your friends, I would first warn them and tell them if they are caught doing it again they are outta here with no refund, and are not being invited back. People that fishy I want to keep around in my home games.

[JTrout]

[ QUOTE ]
If they are your friends, I would definately talk to them first. Even if they are not your friends, I would first warn them and tell them if they are caught doing it again they are outta here with no refund, and are not being invited back. People that fishy I want to keep around in my home games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good advice!

[Kyo Souma II]

Let them be aware you're paying attention to their shadiness without overtly saying anything. A questioning, puzzledd look while glancing back and forth from one to the other is appropriate, as if you're trying to figure out whether you just saw what you thought you saw.

Note their reactions.

-kyo

[TimsterToo]

I had a first home game yesterday. We all put in 5 euros and sadly enough it lasted all night :-)

We played really small stakes (first time, most of them totally new to the game, don't want anyone to lose more then they can afford anyways) but still we agreed that someone caught cheating would take the stairs down the really fast way and after that be thrown in the canal. (I live in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, ending up in a canal is not a good plan)

I would never allow a cheater to play again as it really spoils the game and takes all the friendliness out of it. I'm not sure how strong I feel about this collusion though, probably should have been there. If they really suck this bad and one showed the other his cards to warn him off seating them apart from each other should take care of matters. Somehow I don't see this in the same league as having cards up your sleeve etc. In the game yesterday one of the guys showed the person next to him (who was on a losing streak) his cards with the advice to just fold as he was going to beat him for the third hand in a row with a flush whilst both raised and rereraised every hand. There was still someone else in the hand to who folded straight away. To me it was just a good laugh as it was to the rest of the table.

The missing money is serious though, I would not accept that ever. The fact that the amount missing doesn't hurt you is not the issue.

[Kyo Souma II]

[ QUOTE ]
The missing money is serious though, I would not accept that ever. The fact that the amount missing doesn't hurt you is not the issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

I host a game and keep all the money in a specific pocket so if anything gets fudged, it's on me... but only when sober. I also prefer to keep the chips either plainly in sight or entirely hidden.

-kyo

[jojobinks]

[ QUOTE ]

"um, if you let them play, you're a moron, no mattter how badly they suck. " -dedmoney

Thanks for this totally unnecesary and pointless comment.

[/ QUOTE ]

see, the fact that you think this comment was unnecessary and pointless might be your problem.

it doesn't matter that they aren't very good; you're allowing them to cheat, and that's a serious problem. unless they're actually retarded, or unless they're your 5 and 7 year old sons, they need to be booted or straightened out...

[grandgnu]

So it's ok for them to cheat as long as they suck? But if they win then it's not ok? Make up your mind man, either cheating is or isn't allowed (I vote "isn't")

Also, you should know better than to trust two Aussies at the table. Don't you realize all Australians are criminals?

[Lottery Larry]

Thank you, oh wise Solomon

[grabdemankles]

HAVE YOU SEEN THE MOVIE CASINO?????
IF SO, GO BUY A HAMMER.

[ZenMusician]

[ QUOTE ]
...whilst both still had hands

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, didn't get past "whilst"! I haven't seen that
word used since reading instructions very loosely
translated from Chinese!!

TY!!

-ZEN

[poker-penguin]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, you should know better than to trust two Aussies at the table. Don't you realize all Australians are criminals?

[/ QUOTE ]

POTW

[Packerfan]

I say you cornhole the pricks

[smoore]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...whilst both still had hands

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, didn't get past "whilst"! I haven't seen that
word used since reading instructions very loosely
translated from Chinese!!

TY!!

-ZEN

[/ QUOTE ]

Last time I read it in print was "Canterbury Tales".

[henrikrh]

Well, we are gonna play with them again tomorrow, and yes they are close friends so that's an issue too. Everyone elses homegames here seem to be roughly a dozen times more serious than we take ours. I will be taking the advice about keeping all the money and then having any inaccuracies be on me, thanks.

Whilst most your advice is good, I don't think we should be too hard whilst our game is still pretty friendly. Whilst whilst whilst, thou doth me many wrongs in thine accusation, by my troth I am off!

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, we are gonna play with them again tomorrow, and yes they are close friends so that's an issue too.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Close" friends don't try to cheat you. Someone who cheats you isn't your "friend". I've held home games since 2002, and learned this myself, dealing with an old high school "buddy"

[Bill Bixby]

Hen just dont let them play anymore, and you will be fine... Good luck to you.

[KornGeek]

[ QUOTE ]
it doesn't matter that they aren't very good; you're allowing them to cheat, and that's a serious problem. unless they're actually retarded, or unless they're your 5 and 7 year old sons, they need to be booted or straightened out...

[/ QUOTE ]

If got a 5 and 7 year olds sons (and I've actually begun teaching the 7 year old how to play poker), and if I caught either of them cheating, they'd be out of the game.

The guys may not be good cheaters now, but why allow them to practice? If you allow them to cheat when they are losing money, you won't be able to suddenly say "That's not allowed" when they begin to win. You've already set the precedent.

Kick 'em out now. Even if they're giving you money, they're ruining the game.

[somapopper]

[ QUOTE ]
this time however we outright saw one show the other his hand whilst both still had hands.

At the time we mucked both their hands (one had shown 77 to the other to tell him to fold), and one of us got up to cash out, pissed that they tried to cheat.

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I understand your allegation is that they were colluding and sharing the same roll? I'm a little hazzy on the situation because you didn't mention the other players in the pot (obviously if it was HU he can show the other guy his hand and tell him to fold all day long). And, it also sounds like he made a pretty obvious motion of exposing his cards?

I think the more likely scenario is that he was trying to save his buddy money when he knew he had the winner. While this is still cheating by the letter of the law, if they aren't combining their rolls, it isn't really by the spirit. True if the 7s weren't the winner, then the other guy missed out on an overcall or whatever, but this sounds like bad form more than two people deliberately defrauding the game. Mucking their hands and informing them that that was a no no should be ample punishment it seems to me. We aren't talking about a card mechanic here, they're your friends or somebody elses.

[masse75]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

"um, if you let them play, you're a moron, no mattter how badly they suck. "

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for this totally unnecesary and pointless comment.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's not pointless. You see it as a friendly game, they obviously don't...since they're cheating. Would you call BS if a close friend took $3 out of your wallet? Is it the amount or the action that matters?

[masse75]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, we are gonna play with them again tomorrow, and yes they are close friends so that's an issue too. Everyone elses homegames here seem to be roughly a dozen times more serious than we take ours. I will be taking the advice about keeping all the money and then having any inaccuracies be on me, thanks.

Whilst most your advice is good, I don't think we should be too hard whilst our game is full of cheaters. Whilst whilst whilst, thou doth me many wrongs in thine accusation, by my troth I am off!

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP