The best Mike Tyson line last night

So at the press conference after, Mike says that he's probably retiring because he "doesn't want to disrespect the sport" by losing to a lesser caliber opponent.

Mighty white of him. Of course he didn't "disrespect the sport" when he

1. Tried to break McBride's arm in a clinch last night (a move he pulled on Francois Botha some years ago);
2. Head butted McBride in a probable attempt to end the fight;
3. Bit Evander Hollyfield's ear off;
4. Raped Desiree Washington;
5. Got a face tattoo;

Yada yada. You get the drift.

Good thing boxing has/had Mike Tyson looking out for it.

[Dynasty]

You couldn't find a way to fit this into one of the other half dozen Mike Tyson threads?

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Good thing boxing has/had Mike Tyson looking out for it

[/ QUOTE ]

You're saying boxing hasn't benefitted from Mike Tyson?

No. 4 and 5 don't really have anything to do with the sport of boxing.

b

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
You couldn't find a way to fit this into one of the other dozen and a half Mike Tyson threads?

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Vince Young]

[ QUOTE ]
5. Got a face tattoo

[/ QUOTE ]
What a [censored]' piece of [censored].

No. It has nothing to do with any of the other Mike Tyson threads.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Good thing boxing has/had Mike Tyson looking out for it

[/ QUOTE ]

You're saying boxing hasn't benefitted from Mike Tyson?

No. 4 and 5 don't really have anything to do with the sport of boxing.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not what I said.

What I said was, in a nutshell, that it's laughable for the post-Cus D'Amato/Kevin Rooney Mike Tyson to say that he's doing anything for the good of boxing. Do you disagree?

And while No. 4 (No. 5 is more of a joke) didn't happen in the ring, I think it's hard to reasonably argue that Tyson getting convicted of rape was not a black eye for boxing. One of many, perhaps, but it still was a black eye (no pun intended).

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
that it's laughable for the post-Cus D'Amato/Kevin Rooney Mike Tyson to say that he's doing anything for the good of boxing. Do you disagree?


[/ QUOTE ]

Though his draw is diminishing, he's still drawing fans to the sport. He's still bringing in money to people involved in the sport. Many people paid alot of cash to see if he'd bite Holyfields ear in the 2nd fight. Side show as that is, it still has an effect of upping the interest.

[ QUOTE ]
And while No. 4 (No. 5 is more of a joke) didn't happen in the ring, I think it's hard to reasonably argue that Tyson getting convicted of rape was not a black eye for boxing.

[/ QUOTE ]

10-20 years from now it will only be a small footnote in boxing. How often do you hear about Ty Cobbs off field stuff in baseball? Did that really affect baseball as a sport or have any real significatn impact? It's not like a great revelation that boxers aren't he elite members of society.

b

I still hear about Ty Cobb's nonsense -- from brawling on the field to off-field racism -- pretty frequently.

My feeling about Tyson is that, while folks may be drawn in to watch this train wreck, he is not fighting for the good of the sport, or out of any love or respect for the sport. If he respected the sport, he'd be an ambassador for it and not the clown that he's become (I know I am ignoring mental illness issues and the answer is not so easy). I think he fights most recently because he's got a line of creditors around the block. The fact that 100,000 people might by his pay-per-view is incidental.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that it's laughable for the post-Cus D'Amato/Kevin Rooney Mike Tyson to say that he's doing anything for the good of boxing. Do you disagree?


[/ QUOTE ]

Though his draw is diminishing, he's still drawing fans to the sport. He's still bringing in money to people involved in the sport. Many people paid alot of cash to see if he'd bite Holyfields ear in the 2nd fight. Side show as that is, it still has an effect of upping the interest.

[ QUOTE ]
And while No. 4 (No. 5 is more of a joke) didn't happen in the ring, I think it's hard to reasonably argue that Tyson getting convicted of rape was not a black eye for boxing.

[/ QUOTE ]

10-20 years from now it will only be a small footnote in boxing. How often do you hear about Ty Cobbs off field stuff in baseball? Did that really affect baseball as a sport or have any real significatn impact? It's not like a great revelation that boxers aren't he elite members of society.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike has been a big draw, but also a poster boy for what people don't like about boxing for a very long time now. He may have brought some people some money and excitement, but long-term, I don't think it can be argued that he gave boxing a black eye.

I remember when he bit Holyfield's ear off. Boxing coverage got even more sparse in the L.A. Times, but there was pretty universal condemnation going through the papers and on t.v. and in magazines about not just what a sick f*ck Tyson was, but how the actually reflected how primitive, stupid, and brutal boxing was. And of course corruption inevitably gets dragged in to inflate the souffle and give people even more to hate about the sport.

Tyson was definitely gave momentum to the idea that boxing isn't a "sweet science," but a sewer, with Tyson not an exception, but just the latest turd to come bobbing back at us.

[maryfield48]

I think "mighty white" is an encomium that, like Tyson, should have been retired long ago.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I still hear about Ty Cobb's nonsense -- from brawling on the field to off-field racism -- pretty frequently

[/ QUOTE ]

This still doesn't do much to most peoples' view of baseball. It's negligible in weight for one deciding if they respect the sport. Do all the stories you hear affect your opinion on the sport? Probably not.

Anything that draws interest to a sport is usually good for the sport. (minus cheating, of course) Look at ice skating. Harding was one of the best things to happen to that in a long time. The french judge fixing was considered worse for the sport than what Harding did.

b

[PhatPots]

I think the sport boxing is a joke. It's basically two people just hitting eachother till one is unconscious. It is incredibly entertaining, and mike tyson brought a lot of the entertianment to it. The face tatoo is awesome in a "we're laughing at you, not with you" sort of way.

[sublime]

No. It has nothing to do with any of the other Mike Tyson threads.

way to rage against the machine /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[bottomset]

Holyfield headbutted Tyson, and for that matter every other boxer he fought

Tyson was at one point the most feared boxer to ever step in the ring, he had 16first round ko's in his first 25fights

he got exploited by everyone around him, and locked up on bogus charges

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Though his draw is diminishing, he's still drawing fans to the sport. He's still bringing in money to people involved in the sport. Many people paid alot of cash to see if he'd bite Holyfields ear in the 2nd fight. Side show as that is, it still has an effect of upping the interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. This is completely wrong. Drawing people interested in seeing a freakshow is not the same as raising the interest in boxing. Drawing this type of interest might make some people money, but it isn't good for boxing over the long-term. If anything it chases away real boxing fans.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Though his draw is diminishing, he's still drawing fans to the sport. He's still bringing in money to people involved in the sport. Many people paid alot of cash to see if he'd bite Holyfields ear in the 2nd fight. Side show as that is, it still has an effect of upping the interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. This is completely wrong. Drawing people interested in seeing a freakshow is not the same as raising the interest in boxing. Drawing this type of interest might make some people money, but it isn't good for boxing over the long-term. If anything it chases away real boxing fans.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was beginning to think I was the only one who realized that.

[Blarg]

Holyfield mopped the floor with Tyson, twice.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Though his draw is diminishing, he's still drawing fans to the sport. He's still bringing in money to people involved in the sport. Many people paid alot of cash to see if he'd bite Holyfields ear in the 2nd fight. Side show as that is, it still has an effect of upping the interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. This is completely wrong. Drawing people interested in seeing a freakshow is not the same as raising the interest in boxing. Drawing this type of interest might make some people money, but it isn't good for boxing over the long-term. If anything it chases away real boxing fans.

[/ QUOTE ]

It does up the interest as there are other fights on the card other than him. Sure he's the main draw. It doesn't have to unanimously draw everyone for the right reason to the sport, just put the sport in the limelight in general.

Boxing has benefitted from Mike Tyson. Don't kid yourself.

b

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Though his draw is diminishing, he's still drawing fans to the sport. He's still bringing in money to people involved in the sport. Many people paid alot of cash to see if he'd bite Holyfields ear in the 2nd fight. Side show as that is, it still has an effect of upping the interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. This is completely wrong. Drawing people interested in seeing a freakshow is not the same as raising the interest in boxing. Drawing this type of interest might make some people money, but it isn't good for boxing over the long-term. If anything it chases away real boxing fans.

[/ QUOTE ]

It does up the interest as there are other fights on the card other than him. Sure he's the main draw. It doesn't have to unanimously draw everyone for the right reason to the sport, just put the sport in the limelight in general.

Boxing has benefitted from Mike Tyson. Don't kid yourself.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you might have a different definition of "benefited" than I do. Has he made some people some money? Yes. Has he improved boxing by either drawing legitimate, long-term fans of boxing (not brawling, ear-biting, etc.) or improved the reputation of the sport? No.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Has he improved boxing by either drawing legitimate, long-term fans of boxing

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure he has. Are you saying none of those million plus fans that did pay per view throughout his career will ever be longterm fans? The ones who watched him early on? You're wrong. Maybe the last fight or 2 didn't draw many, but to say over his career he had no impact on putting boxing back in the limelight and drawing fans to the sport is just ludicrous.

The reputation of pro sports in general has taken hits all across the board. Boxing isn't innocent of that.

b

[Blarg]

Only among the people who liked boxing in the first place or could be pretty easily be persuaded. And not all of those.

He confirmed boxing as the ultimate throwback that's outlived its place in the world, in every way, for everybody else.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
Sure he has. Are you saying none of those million plus fans that did pay per view throughout his career will ever be longterm fans? The ones who watched him early on? You're wrong. Maybe the last fight or 2 didn't draw many, but to say over his career he had no impact on putting boxing back in the limelight and drawing fans to the sport is just ludicrous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did I say he didn't draw any legitimate fans at all? If so I was talking about significant numbers. I'd say not. And I think you have to look at the net effect. If you balance any positive publicity with the negative, the negative definitely wins.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Only among the people who liked boxing in the first place or could be pretty easily be persuaded. And not all of those.

He confirmed boxing as the ultimate throwback that's outlived its place in the world, in every way, for everybody else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, UFC has taken quite a chunk out of boxing, imo.

b

[bernie]

Who was the most popular fighter in the mid 80s to the mid 90s? He didn't just draw a handful of legitimate fans to the sport. Legit fans aren't hinging everything on him once they are drawn. Through him they also discovered the lesser known lower weights that tended to have better fights in them.

You realize he is one of the most popular fighters to ever box? Ever? Good or bad, he drew people to the sport. Millions and millions of people world wide. Who else since him has even made close to the impact/buzz on boxing?

b

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
He didn't just draw a handful of legitimate fans to the sport. Legit fans aren't hinging everything on him once they are drawn.... Good or bad, he drew people to the sport. Millions and millions of people world wide.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the point. Much of what he's "drawn to the sport" is bad. It's not benefiting the sport. It's turning the sport into a freak show. Have you seen who follows him around in the streets in foreign countries? It's not boxing fans. It's the same crowd that follows random celebrities around here. It's a celebrity thing that has nothing to do with appreciation for the sport.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Much of what he's "drawn to the sport" is bad. It's not benefiting the sport.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're wrong. Spanning his whole career, he's done more to benefit than not benefit the sport. Lately, he's a joke, no doubt. He also isn't drawing nearly what he was. I think you're underestimating those 10 years, actually, right up to the first holyfield fight, just how much he drew. He wasn't a freakshow then. Not sure how old you are, but maybe you don't remember those 10+ years of his career. (that isn't meant as an insult. Many in their 20s don't remember. They'll weigh it on the more recent Tyson as that's what they're familiar with. If you're in your 30s, you should remember his impact.)

b

[jakethebake]

Of course I remember those fights. I watched. But I was a boxing fan long before that. I don't know how many people are tue boxing fans due solely to Mike Tyson. But I think you overestimate it. And I think you have to net all the freakshow watchers from that to get to a net benefit to the sport. But we can just agree to disagree.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know how many people are tue boxing fans due solely to Mike Tyson. But I think you overestimate it. And

[/ QUOTE ]

How many recent fighters are household names? Who has drawn more people to the sport in the last 20 years?

I just thought of something while in the shower.

Boxing isn't as popular now as it was, say, 10 years ago. In general, it's not drawing as many fans nowadays.

Why?

I came up with a few reasons. 1 included how I think having Lewis as champion has been more of a detriment than having Tyson fight recently.

b

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Has he improved boxing by either drawing legitimate, long-term fans of boxing

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure he has. Are you saying none of those million plus fans that did pay per view throughout his career will ever be longterm fans? The ones who watched him early on? You're wrong. Maybe the last fight or 2 didn't draw many, but to say over his career he had no impact on putting boxing back in the limelight and drawing fans to the sport is just ludicrous.

The reputation of pro sports in general has taken hits all across the board. Boxing isn't innocent of that.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there's a huge difference between a boxing fan and someone who wants to see a quick brutal completely one-sided punch-out.

I think tons of Tyson fans -- heck, maybe most of them -- were and are Tyson fans, not boxing fans. A huge percentage of them probably don't know or care to about boxing and its history and great fighters, and don't want to. They were there for the quick thrill on the most dumb and brutal level, and now that Tyson's gone, a lot of them are gone too.

Tyson may have broadened the public fascination with two-minute punch-outs, but not of the sport of boxing. I don't think anyone watched Tyson to see him box.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Only among the people who liked boxing in the first place or could be pretty easily be persuaded. And not all of those.

He confirmed boxing as the ultimate throwback that's outlived its place in the world, in every way, for everybody else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, UFC has taken quite a chunk out of boxing, imo.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure it has. Though, probably only a very tiny percentage of the U.S. cold tell you the name of any current UFC or other open fighting style champion.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Only among the people who liked boxing in the first place or could be pretty easily be persuaded. And not all of those.

He confirmed boxing as the ultimate throwback that's outlived its place in the world, in every way, for everybody else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, UFC has taken quite a chunk out of boxing, imo.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure it has. Though, probably only a very tiny percentage of the U.S. cold tell you the name of any current UFC or other open fighting style champion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many people in the US couldn't tell you the name of any current boxing champion. They'd guess at Lewis. Not because he's fought recently or anything.

b

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Much of what he's "drawn to the sport" is bad. It's not benefiting the sport.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're wrong. Spanning his whole career, he's done more to benefit than not benefit the sport. Lately, he's a joke, no doubt. He also isn't drawing nearly what he was. I think you're underestimating those 10 years, actually, right up to the first holyfield fight, just how much he drew. He wasn't a freakshow then. Not sure how old you are, but maybe you don't remember those 10+ years of his career. (that isn't meant as an insult. Many in their 20s don't remember. They'll weigh it on the more recent Tyson as that's what they're familiar with. If you're in your 30s, you should remember his impact.)

b

[/ QUOTE ]

Tyson was almost ALWAYS a freakshow. Very, very long before the Holyfield fights. He had been a freakshow forever for a very long time before that.

I think you don't realize how much the freakshow was a part of the appeal. Freakshow + 2-minute smash-up, one or both guys guaranteed one way or the other to practically explode before our eyes. That doesn't equal making boxing fans or advancing the sport to me. It's spectacle, like a car crash or the O.J. trial. How many of those Tyson fans are buying pay per view now?

[ QUOTE ]
No. It has nothing to do with any of the other Mike Tyson threads.

way to rage against the machine /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Dead, you have to let me know how you hacked into Sublime's login.

A whole line of arguments and rebuttals without a single insult by anyone. Well done gentlemen. Good reading.

[Blarg]

Yeah, but clearly world class boxers' names have been well known around the world and in the U.S. I'm not sure I knew many people who didn't know who Sugar Ray Leonard or Hagler or Hearns or De La Hoya or Ali were, in their primes -- I'd guess most of them would know who they are even today. I'm not sure I know or have ever known anyone would knew who any UFC guys were besides the odd man out who knew maybe one of the Gracies. Maybe. Maybe.

UFC type fights are getting bigger, and I bet and hope it continues. They're still just a speck compared to boxing, though.

[ggbman]

The only reason i ever started watching boxing was because of Mike Tyson, in his prime he was more dominant then any boxer i have ever seen. I dont think there was a ever a fighter who was more intimiatiding. People might have known Ali would beat them, but not in a TKO in the first round...

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Freakshow + 2-minute smash-up, one or both guys guaranteed one way or the other to practically explode before our eyes.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think any newbie coming to watch the sport isn't looking for a knockout or a brawl? You think they're really looking for a close decision? A good 'tactical' bout? Please. Boxing itself isn't really any more of a freakshow than it ever was before. You think Ali didn't know how to make a 'freakshow' of a fight? And build the gate? This is nothing new.

By your definition, Jones Jr would be a freakshow, along with Foreman.

[ QUOTE ]
How many of those Tyson fans are buying pay per view now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on who's fighting. Many likely aren't buying Tyson PPV, but other PPV fights. Tyson isn't the reason boxing is losing popularity nowadays.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
A whole line of arguments and rebuttals without a single insult by anyone. Well done gentlemen. Good reading.

[/ QUOTE ]

It happens on occasion. We'll be more beligerant next time. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but clearly world class boxers' names have been well known around the world and in the U.S.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean mostly high-profile, well marketed 'world class boxers' names have been well known around the world.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I knew many people who didn't know who Sugar Ray Leonard or Hagler or Hearns or De La Hoya or Ali were, in their primes -- I'd guess most of them would know who they are even today.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about someone current? Like in the last 10 years? Ask someone who the middleweight champion is? Or the lightweight one. How about the welterweight since Sugar Ray used to own that division. I'm not even sure who all the heavyweight champions are at the moment.

Watch them start guessing. There's no real names out there right now that are big draws.

UFC is growing. It'll be interesting where they are in a couple years.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
The only reason i ever started watching boxing was because of Mike Tyson, in his prime he was more dominant then any boxer i have ever seen. I dont think there was a ever a fighter who was more intimiatiding. People might have known Ali would beat them, but not in a TKO in the first round...

[/ QUOTE ]

But you obviously don't watch boxing now since Tyson has become a joke, right?

b

[Blarg]

Yeah, they're growing, but still non-events compared to boxing.

I wouldn't mind seeing that change. I have a lot of respect for those fighters these days.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, they're growing, but still non-events compared to boxing.

I wouldn't mind seeing that change. I have a lot of respect for those fighters these days.

[/ QUOTE ]

Brings up another question.

Don't you think many of the fans being drawn to UFC is because of their 'freakshow' image? Think of why the average person is drawn to it.

b

[hoyaboy1]

UFC has a very underdeveloped fan culture in the US. They still boo when fights go to the ground. Compare that to Japan, where Pride is much bigger and with more sophisticated fans.

UFC doesn't just get idiots like it used to, but they still have a lot of work to do with their fanbase.

[Blarg]

Yeah, I do think that's a big part of it, Bernie.

People love blood and guts, or at least a lot of them do, kind of like so many people slow down to look at accidents on the freeway or go to car races hoping to see someone get in a crash -- maybe hopefully killed? I dunno.

I think the tremendous potential for freakshow violence is still a huge part of the draw of UFC style fights.

A lot of boxing fans have always been like that too, though. Mike Tyson is exhibit 1 for that, and he bloated boxing receipts for years far beyond what its real fan base would support. And now that he's gone, a lot of those fans will probably be turning to UFC type shows next, while boxing falls back closer to a sort of equilibrium with the interest of people who truly like boxing, not just ear-biting.

I think open style fighting could eventually get much bigger, and hope it does. And I hope the level of hand techniques there eventually becomes much more competitive with regular boxing. There's a lot of evolution going on there as the fighters round out their talents more and more, making the all-around general skill levels of those fights far higher. We could be in for the development of some really amazing fighters.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of boxing fans have always been like that too, though. Mike Tyson is exhibit 1 for that

[/ QUOTE ]

Jones Jr drew the same kind also. Just not quite as many. Call him exhibit 2. Notice he didn't really have any big wars in the ring that were really memorable. What was he known for? That's just the nature of the sport and how it draws people.


[ QUOTE ]
while boxing falls back closer to a sort of equilibrium with the interest of people who truly like boxing, not just ear-biting.


[/ QUOTE ]

What I was getting at was Tyson drew alot of fans who eventually do truly like boxing. He put boxing on the front page. Fans who truly like the sport aren't going to leave just because of one fighter. Put it this way, he's drawn more interest to the sport during his career (though i'll admit not lately) than pretty much anyone in the last 10-20 years. Of those drawn, there are many that will truly like boxing but may not have been drawn to it otherwise. More of those types came and stayed rather than left because of him. As I said above, if they truly like it, or are interested in the sport once they get a taste of it, they realize there is much more than just one fighter.

b