JJ...did I hang on too long?

[benkath1]

Villian is unknown.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 caps</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (11.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB

[shadow29]

I can find a turn fold against an unknown.

Reads would help.

[karitek]

I don't see why you called the turn, but folded the river. You have to stay in at that point. This hand is very read-dependent - did you have any reads on the villan?

[AlmightyJay]

I think you can safely fold this turn.

[ClaytonN]

Either stay in till showdown or fold the turn...

[benkath1]

[ QUOTE ]
Either stay in till showdown or fold the turn...

[/ QUOTE ]

Got it. Thanks to all. Sorry I didn't tell u i had no reads.

[karitek]

without any reads, fold the turn. you are most likely behind.

[kapw7]

We are getting odds of 11.75:2 to call down.
We are ahead of AK and maybe AJs and behind AA/KK/QQ/TT/AQ and we have 2 outs. I think calling down is fine.
The weakest thing to do is call the turn and fold the river.

[HollywoodDB]

If we call the turn, shoudn't we call the river?

[istewart]

Giving him a generous capping range, for an unknown (AA-TT, AQs+), and eliminating the overcard hands because of the flop action (or at least lessening their probability), folding the turn is good.

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
Giving him a generous capping range, for an unknown (AA-TT, AQs+), and eliminating the overcard hands because of the flop action (or at least lessening their probability), folding the turn is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I admit I didn't read the flop action (playing at the same time). So having lost (most of) the AK possibility it is a fold on the turn.

[aK13]

I don't think calling to showdown after being 3 bet is acceptable at all.

[Jakesta]

What do you guys think about folding to the flop 3bet?

[turaho]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you guys think about folding to the flop 3bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the size of the pot plus the action you'll get if you hit your set on the turn makes calling the flop 3-bet all right. But definitely fold the turn unimproved. Villain isn't 3-betting overcards when he's out of position unless he's an idiot.

[MrEngenic]

No, you want to see a showdown here. It's only a matter of if you should raise the flop or call down.

[parappa]

After MP2 folds on the flop, I like call/call/call. Since you raised the flop, I guess we can fold the turn.

[WSOP Bound]

[ QUOTE ]
We are getting odds of 11.75:2 to call down.
We are ahead of AK and maybe AJs and behind AA/KK/QQ/TT/AQ and we have 2 outs. I think calling down is fine.
The weakest thing to do is call the turn and fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]


Do you think that your good here 17% of the time? I would usually fold this assuming that I'm behind and drawing to two outs with 11.75:2 odds when I need 22:1 in order to be +EV. Is this wrong?

[bozlax]

Standard reply: at some point preflop or on the flop you've got to give Villan credit for a better PP or a set. If you're going to run all the way to the river, you can't fold when an offsuit 4 falls (yeah, it puts 3 to a straight on the board, but if that's what the guy was playing like this, I think the propeller on his beanie needs to be oiled); otherwise, you're merely chasing your 2-outer, and then you're losing to the pot odds on every street.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
I can find a turn fold against an unknown.

Reads would help.

[/ QUOTE ]


Now THIS is funny stuff.

[silvershade]

Out of interest as i was the villain here ( silvershade is a gamertag that i dont play poker under ) I thought I'd say what i thought / think;

After my flop 3 bet assuming you have 2 outs you need odds of around 22-1 to call, clearly you had the odds to call me on the flop so i think its a reasonable play to call me and I wasnt surprised that you did. I think that you must recognise that you are certainly behind at this point though, assuming I'm not a total idiot anything I'm playing like this given the pre-flop action has you behind,( ie AA,KK,QQ or less likely TT, the overcards I'm not going to be playing this way and JJ is unlikely given your own holding ).

On the turn you no longer have the pot odds to call with any pocket pair, I thought i was probably going to make 2 extra bbs here when you called rather than the 1 i got. I was expecting either a raise if you had QQ or TT or a fold if you were holding anything else ( you didnt cap the flop so I thought KK or AA were unlikely ).

In short imho you ought to have folded on the turn, that would have been my play.

[TomBrooks]

I call down this river against an unknown getting 13:1 on Party .5/1.