poker book question

[aaron7484]

I've been playing NLHE everday since early March. March-May this was primarily tournament style with about 8 friends. Since then it's been a few cash games with friends but mostly online multi- and single-table tournaments. I've watched poker avidly on TV and read numerous articles/talked with friends much better than I am.

During the past week I read my first book on poker, Harrington Vol. 1. While I feel I got a lot out of it, I realized two things: (1) that I'll need to read it again & take notes to fully absorb it and (2) it probably shouldn't have been the first book I read on poker because I'm rarely (if ever) playing against anyone like the opponents he describes. So my question is, what should I read now? And which after that? I've heard the Lee Jones and Sklansky books on low-limit HE would be helpful to someone at my level, but are they more concerned with LHE than NLHE? From there I was planning to read the Theory of Poker and then then Hold 'Em for the Advanced Player with Harrington Vol. 2 sandwiched somewhere in there. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks...

[playersare]

no-limit in its structure is going to have more complicated strategy than fixed limit (except at very high limits where LHE can actually require more skill, according to Malmuth). so up until recently there haven't been any particularly simple books available to read for rank NL beginners. most people start with fixed limit for a while, then "move up" to NL where they can understand the likes of SS1/SS2, Ciaffone, Harrington and so forth.

this year's publication of "Getting Started In Hold Em" by Ed Miller does a good job filling this gap. also - though I expect opinions to the contrary - the 'New Player' series version of "No Limit Texas Hold Em" by Daugherty/McEvoy wouldn't be the worst place to start either (note: this is NOT the 'Championship' series NL/PL book by Cloutier). for $24.95 list price, I would rather get GSIH which is usually $15-16, but I've seen the Daugherty for as little as $10 at the cardplayer.com store which makes it more of a tossup, since it deals exclusively with NL while the Miller is more half and half LHE.

[aaron7484]

i don't want to sound cocky, but i feel books like this book, based on reading a little about it on amazon, may be a little too elementary (plus i'm pretty broke right now--i'm a student and have yet to find a job this summer). i quickly became one of the best among my friends, a couple of whom had played some fairly serious poker. it's not that i didn't understand harrington, i just felt like i didn't absorb it all that well. i feel like i already have a decent foundation, and reading harrington has definitely improved my play, improved my understanding of what's going on at any table i'm at, and made me significantly more confident in my game. i guess what i am worried about is that i don't want to spend $15 on a book i'm going to read once and never look at again. if i do decide to pick this book up, what do you think i should read next? thanks.

[AKQJ10]

First of all, the PokerWiki section on NLHE books (http://poker.wikicities.com/wiki/Beginners_FAQ#No-Limit_Hold.27em) is a bit thin, so edits there are heartily encouraged if anyone feels the urge.

I also hadn't thought the new Miller book was appropriate to my level of knowledge, but I have to say that paging through it in the bookstore it looks pretty interesting. (Plus, if you haven't yet branched out into LHE you may want to at some point, but IMO that's not a valid reason to get a half-off-topic book.) It might not be my first choice if you feel that Harrington was on-target for you, but you could do worse.

I bought the Daugherty/McEvoy book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1580421482/qid=1118616843) -- I think that's the one that was meant -- last fall, before Miller or Harrington's NL books existed. I wouldn't quite call it a waste, but almost -- once Harrington's book came along Daughter/McEvoy's had no reason to exist.

Supposedly Sklansky is working on a NL ring game book, no?

[Pov]

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Supposedly Sklansky is working on a NL ring game book, no?

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yep (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2591588&page=1&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1#Post2598553)

[Zetack]

I'd like to get you into a more basic book, but most of em are aimed at limit and ring games.

So, since tourney's are your thing you should go for the Sklansky's "Tournament Poker for Advanced Players." Its not necessarily easy stuff, but there are good concepts in there even if you aren't an advanced player, and you can keep going back to it as you get more experienced.


--Zetack

[AKQJ10]

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So, since tourney's are your thing you should go for the Sklansky's "Tournament Poker for Advanced Players."

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I disagree. There's very little NLHE-specific material in that book, and unless the OP's 8-player tournaments are structured in a multi-day format like the WSOP (what a thought!) most of Sklansky wouldn't really apply. He's writing about big tournaments where people are afraid to bust out in the first hour, not home-game sit-and-goes. At least that's my take, YMMV.

I was going to say that Harrington's is a much better choice because I forgot the OP already has it. So, I suppose Sklansky's tournament book is as good as anything, but I still wouldn't feel confident recommending it. Maybe that Ciaffone/Ruben book on No-limit/Pot-limit? It seems to get good reviews.

BTW I bought Miller's book just for the NL section last night, and I love it, even if it is a bit basic. I misplaced SSHE so the limit portion is a good review.

[Zetack]

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So, since tourney's are your thing you should go for the Sklansky's "Tournament Poker for Advanced Players."

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I disagree. There's very little NLHE-specific material in that book, and unless the OP's 8-player tournaments are structured in a multi-day format like the WSOP (what a thought!) most of Sklansky wouldn't really apply. He's writing about big tournaments where people are afraid to bust out in the first hour, not home-game sit-and-goes. At least that's my take, YMMV.

I was going to say that Harrington's is a much better choice because I forgot the OP already has it. So, I suppose Sklansky's tournament book is as good as anything, but I still wouldn't feel confident recommending it. Maybe that Ciaffone/Ruben book on No-limit/Pot-limit? It seems to get good reviews.

BTW I bought Miller's book just for the NL section last night, and I love it, even if it is a bit basic. I misplaced SSHE so the limit portion is a good review.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's been a while since I read it, but since I only play NLHE tourneys when I play tourneys, and I remember it as being very useful (its been over a year since I looked at it though) I'm surprised to hear somebody say it wasn't useful for NLHE tourneys.

Also the OP said that he played multi's and sit n gos, and yes the book is much more useful for the multi's than the sit n gos.

It's too bad there isn't more focus on s-n-g's in the books. Of what's out there, I think Harrington is the most useful for that purpose, but the OP already has that.

I don't think there's an ideal book for what the poster wants--not too advanced for online tourneys. But Sklansky's book is a great tournament book nevertheless, and very useful for someone is going to concentrate on tourneys.

--Zetack

[AKQJ10]

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Also the OP said that he played multi's and sit n gos, and yes the book is much more useful for the multi's than the sit n gos.

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I really need to improve my reading comprehension. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

True, I overlooked that the OP plays multis as well, and I think the Sklansky book will be immensely more helpful there. Even then, though, much of Sklansky's approach is predicated around the WSOP and similar, where people have some fear of calling an early all-in bet. Even the idea of not pushing a small edge so as to be around later to push a bigger one is somewhat dubious in the online world. If you push a 2% edge and lose, well, a new tournament starts somewhere within 15 minutes.

The book is worth having, certainly, and we agree the lack of good stuff out there. If the OP isn't inclined to wait for HOH2, then the Sklansky book's not bad.

[aaron7484]

Thanks for the comments everyone... I think I will wait for HoH2, though I will definitely pick up the Sklansky tournament book before too long. I actually won my first online NLHE tournament last night, and am way up overall since making my first deposit at pokerroom.com (the only site that is Mac compatible) a few days ago. Ironically, most of the money I've made has come from low-limit 7-card stud. This leads me to a couple more questions: is 7CSftAP truly the only essentially 7-card stud book? I've been working my way through Ashley Adams' Winning 7-Card Stud; will I be ready for Sklansky when I'm done with this? Any other stud books worth reading? What about stud hi/lo? Thanks...

[SheridanCat]

Okay, before I get going here.

Miller's Getting Started In Hold'em should be at the top of your list. Is it beneath you? Maybe, but I doubt it. If you pick up one tip there that helps your game it will have paid for itself.

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I actually won my first online NLHE tournament last night, and am way up overall since making my first deposit at pokerroom.com (the only site that is Mac compatible) a few days ago.


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This is no indication of how good you are or whether you are a winning player. Short term results mean nothing at all. If you focus on them, you're lost.

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7CSftAP truly the only essentially 7-card stud book?


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Umm, maybe, but I suggest you take a look at Roy West's book. See the PokerWiki AKQJ10 linked to for more.

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I've been working my way through Ashley Adams' Winning 7-Card Stud; will I be ready for Sklansky when I'm done with this?


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Ready for 7CSFAP? Probably, but are you planning on focusing on 7CS? If so, then you do need to read FAP, but if not, don't bother yet.

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Any other stud books worth reading? What about stud hi/lo?

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Ray Zee's High Low Split Poker For Advanced Players for a good section on this game. You should really try to learn one game well first.

Regards,

T

[El Cuchara]

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Miller's Getting Started In Hold'em should be at the top of your list. Is it beneath you? Maybe, but I doubt it. If you pick up one tip there that helps your game it will have paid for itself.



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Amen, been playing for a year and a half, picked up GSIH 'cuz it's on everyone's reading list and I hadn't yet read it. He's got some good charts for starting hands and calling odds. i've read the limit section three times in the last 2 weeks. there are definitely some basics that can be skipped, but i think it is a book worth at least one read. If nothing else take an afternoon at Barnes and Nobles or borrow it from a friend