I think I like it...

[krishanleong]

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (5 SB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

Villian is tight and reasonable. 18/13 over 204 hands.

Krishan

[Alobar]

yeah I dunno. You can assume he is calling the flop raise with any 2 overs, and prolly any PP. He isnt going to give you credit for a 7, so he thinks youve got a T, or a flush draw or complete crap and are bluffing. When the A drops and you check the turn, I see a whole wide range of hands betting here.

I think I prefer betting the turn, folding to a raise, and if he calls, I prolly check/fold the river.

[spydog]

If TAG is straightforward then I like 3-betting this preflop from the SB.

I think you need to lead the turn HU any time you CR the flop. Not sure if I could ever make an exception. This might be the closest case.

[MoDOH]

It´s close but I think I like it too. Bet-folding is another option, but if you think of it the only hands that you bet righ now that villain would have raised with are KQ or KJ (possible 88 but i doubt it)and they will not fold this turn since he figures he got 10 outs to beat your "pair of tens" that you have represented. Very hard spot to be in indeed.
Seems like a case of reverse implied odds to me.

Check-fold looks fine to me...

How aggressive was villain? would he bet his gutshot if checked to on this turn? if he is passive postflop I like the check even more...

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I prefer betting the turn, folding to a raise

[/ QUOTE ]

I can be convinced that this is better. It just seems like the Ace is such a good bluff card that it would be very easy to get blown off the best hand. Assuming he has overcards, raising the turn doesn't even have to get me to fold that often for it to be a really good play. He has 10 outs against me too.

I'm torn a bit. I thought about bet-fold and decided to save myself ten bucks. I don't know if it was correct.

Krishan

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think I prefer betting the turn, folding to a raise

[/ QUOTE ]

I can be convinced that this is better. It just seems like the Ace is such a good bluff card that it would be very easy to get blown off the best hand. Assuming he has overcards, raising the turn doesn't even have to get me to fold that often for it to be a really good play. He has 10 outs against me too.

I'm torn a bit. I thought about bet-fold and decided to save myself ten bucks. I don't know if it was correct.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

You think he is willing to raise your turn bet as a bluff with just overs, but not bet after you check, with just overs?

I dont think a decent opponent raises this turn as a bluff, unless he views you as a total donk. The thing I'd be most worried about is that he calls with this turn with his small PP or turned gutshot, and then bets the river when you check to him. So yeah, its a tough spot. I like my hand too much to check/fold. But I dunno if I like it enough to put two more bets in to see a showdown. But then I guess you've got an easy river fold if another over drops, and a diamond prolly scares him out of betting if you check to him. So I still like bet the turn, see what happens on the river line.

[wrto4556]

He's going to bluff at it if you check alot more than he's going to raise your bet without the ace. You're giving up the whole pot checking. My standard line would be to bet/fold.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
You think he is willing to raise your turn bet as a bluff with just overs, but not bet after you check, with just overs?

[/ QUOTE ]

No he's betting either way.

How about the line check-call, check-fold the river.

I think I'm convinced check-folding the turn is too weak.

Krishan

[wrto4556]

[ QUOTE ]
How about the line check-call, check-fold the river

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking about this, too. There aren't many hands he's going to call a bet with, but he bet's a ton. Alot of the hands he's betting with have outs, though, so I think it's better to bet and hope they fold to the ace.

I would like check/calling better if the T was a 2.

[TMFS9]

IMO it's fine aslong as you will checkraise the turn in a similar situation. I think you're giving up to much if you continually check/fold to scare cards on the turn. Even tighish straight forward players will bluff bet the turn if you continue to fold in these situations.

[mperich]

3bet preflop, why let the bb in with junk? Flop is good. Turn....hmmm tough one. I think I bet -&gt; fold her ebut I dont think check/fold is much of a mistake either.

-Mike

[naphand]

My thoughts exactly TMF.

Observation of opponent can identify those who bet when checked to (+/- scare cards); we collect extra bets by CR our best hands and save them in spots exactly like this where we would like to see the SD cheap.

Check-folding here is weak, but without a meta-game strategy to protect our weaker hands we are inevitably going to face tough decisions like this. Using the Turn CR more pushes hard decisions onto our opponents and makes our response easier as a consequence.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

How about the line check-call, check-fold the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

Eek. I don't think I like that. You're hoping he will read your check-call as a sign you're calling him down so he won't bluff the river. Against a lot of players that's a mistake. On Party people so often check-call the turn and check-fold the river that anyone who is paying attention to the game in general, rather than you specifically, will be tempted to bet the river again.

So I would prefer check-call check-call, or maybe check-call, bet-fold.

(NB I do think it's pretty unlikely he'll raise the river on a bluff after you check-call, bet... That takes a special kind of psycho.)

Guy.

[imported_piki]

I like check/fold simply because, as it was already pointed out, you're not beating anything but 88, KQ and KJ here. Given the stats, he might not even be raising KJ/88 from UTG.

So you want to be vs. KQ/88 or try to fold JJ/QQ/KK to make money here. First case is rare, second one just isn't happening.

Good fold.

-pix

ps. for anyone who wants to call this down no matter what, why not actually c/r here? i'd bet it's more +EV as you might actually get a better hand (JJ-KK) to fold and even an ace will give you a free showdown sometimes. if you get called and bet into on the river, you can safely fold. you are gaining additional +EV here as your valid turn check/raises will get paid off more often from now on. on a sillier note, it might even enable you to do a double turn/river c/r /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[ZZZ]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think a decent opponent raises this turn as a bluff, unless he views you as a total donk.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is completely backwards. If I was UTG and had KQ or something, I'd raise the turn against a good player (who's likely capable of laying down a T or pocket pair) and not against a donk who's probably calling down after a raise. Look how many twoplustwoers in this thread are advocating bet-fold for the OP.

ZZZ

[imported_piki]

Another thing. If I am the Villain and have just hit an ace on the turn, I might not be raising it. Why would I want to do that? From turn on, your opponent is either way ahead with a 7 or drawing to 2 outs (not 5 since the board is paired). The only reason for this raise is if you desperately want to have more fold equity on turn raises in the future (and you show the ace if opponent folds).

Given that knowledge, you bet the turn, planning to fold to a raise. You get called. What's your river line? Check/calling is awful from your perspective on the turn, since you're effectively putting in 2 bets to win 6.5 (4.5 pot on turn + 2 bet from your opponent turn/river) and I really don't see you winning 1/4 of these pots.

-pix