My first time 6-maxing NL600...your river move?

[Garland]

Although I'm not fond of the game (or don't understand it, yet), I have no choice but to play 6-max. Other than the sporadic one or two games at Party, there simply aren’t a lot of 10-max NL600 games.

I'm relatively new to the table.

(a) Do you like the size of the turn bet?
(b) Do you lead the river?
(c) What's your move?

All comments appreciated.

Thanks,

Garland

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP ($283)
CO ($88)
Button ($1871.60)
SB ($392.30)
Garland ($600)
UTG ($251.35)

Preflop: Garland is BB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, Garland checks.

Flop: ($24) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Garland checks, UTG checks, CO checks.

Turn: ($24) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Garland bets $15</font>, UTG calls $15, CO folds, SB folds.

River: ($54) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Garland bets $33</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $66</font>, Garland ???

[muzungu]

Eh, I'm not really sure what there is to discuss here. I'd make it a little more on the turn, but that is largely a matter of taste. On the river, he probably has you beat (queens up would be my guess), but you are getting 33:150 or whatever, so you are clearly calling.

More to the point- you seem pretty decent from what I have read of your posts, so I'm guessing your unfamiliarity with the party 6-max games is causing you to overthink things. If this were your regular game, I doubt you'd think twice about the hand, regardless of what happened.

-muz

[Allinlife]

all good, I fold the river

[Deftoner]

Yea I fold this river barring a read.

[ahnuld]

I think this is an auto call. Your probably beat about 60% of the time so a call makes sense given the size of the pot. I feel that enough times, your opponent will have only a queen or be on a complete bluff if he missed. Raising shouldn't be an option, so easy call.

[xorbie]

The problem with the river is that it's pretty clear he wants a call (he must be aware that he has very little fold equity). I doubt he would play a flopped set that slowly, but isn't it possible he has something like KQ/images/graemlins/heart.gif/AQ/images/graemlins/heart.gif/AJ and just thinks he is good?

[muzungu]

Sigh....

Are you people serious? I think i am gonna have to get rid of my rock icon now.

1. Hero only has to be winning 1 time in 5.5 to be even money here. 5.5!!! That is a lotta times.

2. Hero has 2 pair! That is a pretty big hand.

3. What are we putting villain on here? There are lots of hands he could have that lose. Qx /images/graemlins/heart.gif, QT, a slowplayed 97, hearts that missed... remember, these people are bad. Unless this guy is a supernit, you have to call this.

Now I know, Garland is gonna say he had T8 or QJ or whatever, and it will look like y'all made a good laydown... but you guys know that he posted this!...and you only need to win 1 time in 5.5!!! If you make these folds in practice, you are going to get run over.

That is all.

[DoomSlice]

Er... call?
You'll be up against AQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif, KQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif etc.. enough to make this a call.

[captZEEbo1]

If anyone is folding two pair here, I'd REGULARLY minraise bluff you any hand I could.

[SirArthur]

Bet more on the turn (especially with your poor position), and with no read I'd call his river raise.
With your weak turn bet, I doubt villain puts you on two pair here.

I'd only fold this with a solid read on villain.

[Voltron87]

1. you played the hand fine.
2. you can't possibly fold on the end here,there is no other way to play it than a call.

[LuvDemNutz]

I would check-call the river.

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
I would check-call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that because you assume he has a missed draw?

[captZEEbo1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would check-call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that because you assume he has a missed draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

or a made draw....either way if you want to see showdown, this is the cheapest and most profitable way, no?

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
I would check-call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying this isn't a good suggestion, but I'm interested into your logic behind it. We have a pretty good hand on the turn that is fairly well disguised, and our opponent has not shown much strength by just calling our smallish bet. The Qd is not a scary card as it doesn't really complete a draw and doesn't make much sense for many two pair hands (except for QJ). If the hand went check check, which I suspect it would a lot of the time you checked that river I would feel like I had lost a lot of value. While this min raise does not look promising, I doubt it happens to us very much. Keeping in mind we still could be ahead (I agree with calling this raise). I just think it's weak tight to check the river and I'd like to here your justification for it.

[wtfsvi]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar på:</font><hr />
I just think it's weak tight to check the river and I'd like to here your justification for it.

[/ QUOTE ]
To induce a bluff from a missed draw while seeing as cheap a showdown as possible the times hero is beat. Obviously. The downside is, also quite obviously, that villain will check behind with every made hand that hero beats. I figure it's read dependent. Obviously /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Garland]

In retrospect, I didn't like my turn bet. I was trying to bet an amount that a random jack would call, but give incorrect odds to a flush or straight draw. I wish I bet $19 or $20.

I contempted a river check-call, but I felt there would be value in betting and getting called by a J. Inducing a bluff is something I would only do if I was (a) positive my opponent had a busted draw and (b) knew he would bluff at it.

I was getting 153:33 to call, and it's true I was given 4.63:1 odds. However, I *knew* my winning chances was about 10%, if not worse. Mini-raises have nothing but "monster that wants to be called" written all over it, but I still had to call after about a 10 second contempation. Why?

(a) Despite the odds not being there, people still forget that information has value. Seeing your opponents' hands provides data you can use for the future. In short, I wanted to see his damned cards.

(b) Meta-game considerations. If my opponents see that I folded in that spot after what transpired, I might as well put a target on my head that says "mini-raise me with anything, and I'll fold like a weenie". I do not like being a target.

So when I saw the showdown, I expected to be beaten by Qs up. The Q did not complete an open-ended straight as T8 would have already been there on the turn. So T8 was unlikely as it would have played faster either on the flop or certainly the turn.

He turned up K/images/graemlins/diamond.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif for the double-gutter rivered straight.

Thanks for all your thoughts,

Garland

Edit: Fixed the double-gutter draw as per soah's post.

[soah]

Double-gutter actually...

[Deftoner]

Im retarded and thought he had one pair. I insta call =\

[Tony.T]

Why U not betting the river?