Thought I butchered this, but it's actually easy, isn't it?

[SomethingClever]

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP caps</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.40 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button caps</font>, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (12.70 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (15.70 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 18.70 BB

[smacksoup]

maybe its just me, but id consider a laydown somewhere along the line...

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe its just me, but id consider a laydown somewhere along the line...

[/ QUOTE ]

Where?

[2ndGoat]

I'm not going to make it to showdown here either. Will make the laydown preflop and two solid opponents or on the flop against two fairly lag opponents (after the first bet and raise). They need to be out of their mind for me to see a showdown with this.

2nd

[gamblore99]

I wanna lay this down real bad, but there doesn't seem to be a good spot. I do the same.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
Will make the laydown preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

You're going to fold getting 7.5:1 on the first call, and even better than that on the second?

[tightmaniac]

I've looked hard for a place to fold and I just can't find one. I think MP can have a wide range of hands here. I usually don't give too much credit to a random capper like this. I think that two pair is good often enough that you have to call to the river. On the river I cant fold for one bet into a 15+ BB pot.

[ThePenguin]

I think you can fold this on the flop, but I would be enticed to go all the way with my top pair in such a big pot. I don't think you can beat either of your opponents if they are reasonable players.

[ThePenguin]

Question: If button had raised the turn, would you still call? Say something like a red 5 fell instead of the 10, would you call a bet and a raise on the turn?

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
Question: If button had raised the turn, would you still call? Say something like a red 5 fell instead of the 10, would you call a bet and a raise on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, that would have been my cue to fold.

[wrto4556]

I looked hard and there's no place to fold. You're priced in to the flop cap and TPGK is too hard to fold getting 17-to-1.

nice hand.

[college_boy]

n/m I fold preflop to the cap.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
n/m I fold preflop to the cap.

[/ QUOTE ]

You fold getting 12.5:1?????

You'd have to be up against KK and JJ to make this correct.

[sam h]

This hand would have been a lot easier to play if you had bet the flop.

[college_boy]

no you are right.

[Frogic]

Why can't you fold on the flop? You're getting 8:1 with what you hope is 5 outs, and given the action AK and QK are real possibilities, in which case you're looking at quite a bit less... not to mention the possibility of a set. It also has to be taken into consideration that once you call that flop bet you're pretty much committed to showdown unless you face 2 cold on the turn/river. The situation might be different if you bet out the flop since button might not threebet, and if he does you have a better idea about where you're at.

Frogic

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
Why can't you fold on the flop? You're getting 8:1 with what you hope is 5 outs, and given the action AK and QK are real possibilities

[/ QUOTE ]

If there is a fold, this is the only spot for it, you're right.

But you still have to take into account that you will be ahead some percentage of the time here as well.

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
You're priced in to the flop cap

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you mean "priced in"? 11:1 is not enough odds to chase a 3 outter (the jack), which you clearly need to hit just to have a chance of winning this. If I call, it's with the plan of folding to a non-jack turn (and while this logic dictates folding to a turned K, I don't think I have the discipline to do so.)

[wrto4556]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're priced in to the flop cap

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you mean "priced in"? 11:1 is not enough odds to chase a 3 outter (the jack), which you clearly need to hit just to have a chance of winning this. If I call, it's with the plan of folding to a non-jack turn (and while this logic dictates folding to a turned K, I don't think I have the discipline to do so.)

[/ QUOTE ]

We have 3 outs to AK, 5 outs to AA, 0 outs to KK, and the best hand a few times. I don't see folding getting 11-to-1. I don't think I can say we have implied odds because we will sometimes get into a war with the worst of it. That kind of makes it close, but as a general rule, I try NOT to fold in big pots.

[wrto4556]

I dont think we can fold on the flop. We have the best hand too often.

Betting and folding to a 3-bet might work, but id have to be sure noone would 3-bet QQ-TT

[helpmeout]

Fold preflop when it gets capped back to you.

Next time posts some reads and stats on your opponents.

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
We have 3 outs to AK, 5 outs to AA, 0 outs to KK

[/ QUOTE ]
You're not headsup. Even if AA is out there, you have someone in the pot who has at top pair very often, so your K out is worthless. Also, you can catch your 3-outter and still lose to AA's 8 out re-draw and AKs 3 out redraw.

[ QUOTE ]
and the best hand a few times

[/ QUOTE ]
A few times in a thousand? Yeah, maybe both opponents have QQ-TT, I guess it's possible. But without reads like "extreme LAGs", I'd say 3 outs is generous, and not indicative of our true equity.

[Catt]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop when it gets capped back to you.


[/ QUOTE ]

I initially considered folding when it's two back to Hero pre-flop (though I doubt I would do it in the heat of the game).

But it never is 2 back pre-flop. Hero is 3-bet and calls only to be limp-capped by MP.

[wrto4556]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, maybe both opponents have QQ-TT, I guess it's possible. But without reads like "extreme LAGs", I'd say 3 outs is generous, and not indicative of our true equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

We can say that we have 3-4 outs, i think that's fair. Are you folding a 3-4 outter getting 11-to-1 in a 22sb pot? Not to mention we were limp capped which always makes me suspiscous. Even though we have another player in, I think the pot is too big and the flop is too close to fold.

[ QUOTE ]
A few times in a thousand?

[/ QUOTE ]

So, if you called the flop, you're folding this river UI?

EDIT: I was playing on pokerstove to see if we could, in fact, fold the river. No way.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop when it gets capped back to you.

Next time posts some reads and stats on your opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't be serious. It is *one* small bet back to me on the cap. I already called the 3-bet... the capper cold-called, then capped.

[SomethingClever]

Results:

Turns out I had 5 outs on the flop, and 9 on the turn.

Villains both had AA /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[2ndGoat]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop when it gets capped back to you.

Next time posts some reads and stats on your opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't be serious. It is *one* small bet back to me on the cap. I already called the 3-bet... the capper cold-called, then capped.

[/ QUOTE ]

I missed that. Thought you raised and then were confronted with 2 more preflop. So no folding there. But on the flop I'm gone. This could have been even more expensive than it was, and it was genuinely possible that you were drawing dead. That they both had AA was about the best possible outcome for you. One can keep proclaiming "but he was getting x:1" but that's not taking into account how much worse those odds could effectively become when they keep asking if you'd like to pay 2 more bets to stay in.

2nd