Is the Catholic faith a Cult?

[LostMyMoney]

In the 'Pope is an idiot' thread Edge34 said:
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The only thing bizzarre is the fact that there are still idiots out there who, instead of just laying out some kind of logical argument, decide they'd like to offend as many people as possible by calling things like the Catholic Church "cults".

Assclown

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PoBoy123, who attends a Catholic school so he has been brainwashed slightly, concured with this statement.

Well, lets go to the definition:


from Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cult)

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CULT
(source WordNet, Princeton University)
n 1: adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices 2: an interest followed with exaggerated zeal; "he always follows the latest fads"; "it was all the rage that season" [syn: fad, craze, furor, furore, rage] 3: a system of religious beliefs and rituals; "devoted to the cultus of the Blessed Virgin"

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(source American Heritage Dictionary)
1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
2. The followers of such a religion or sect.

2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.

3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.

4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.

5.
a. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
b. The object of such devotion.

6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

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I pose it to you 2p2, is christianity a cult. Is it even close?

[Cyrus]

It's not a cult when it's popular enough.

Cult bands do not fill stadiums.

A system of beliefs can be totally stupid and wildly popular; the latter attribute effectively takes it out of the cult category.

Alternatively, a system of beliefs might be objectively correct and followed by the smallest of minorities (no surprise there). It should not be called a cult either, but then we run into the central issue of who is placing the labels? The majority usually does, so the correctly held beliefs of the minority might very well be labeled a cult.

In a world full of Christian or Islamic fundamentalists, an atheist credo is a cult.

[PoBoy321]

[ QUOTE ]
con·no·ta·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-tshn)
n.
The act or process of connoting.

An idea or meaning suggested by or associated with a word or thing: Hollywood holds connotations of romance and glittering success.
The set of associations implied by a word in addition to its literal meaning.
Logic. The set of attributes constituting the meaning of a term; intension.

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Note definition 2b. There are certain connotations (thanks MMMMM) that go along with a cult that don't apply to the Catholic Church.

And out of curiosity, why is it that everyone gangs up on the Catholic Church, but not, let's say, Southern Baptists? Or Muslims? Or Hari Krishnas?

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Seriously though, a woman in the papal council of Pope John Paul publicly said that the Catholic church is a cult. Have heard nuns say that as well. Christianity is a religion, the church is a cult.

Have a sense that you have a negative connotion with the word though /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[jj_frap]

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously though, a woman in the papal council of Pope John Paul publicly said that the Catholic church is a cult. Have heard nuns say that as well. Christianity is a religion, the church is a cult.

Have a sense that you have a negative connotion with the word though /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

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Sect or denomination is what you're looking for...I'm not fond of the Catholic Church, but I have far more respect for it than I do for the fundamentalist cesspool of American Protestantism.

[bernie]

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And out of curiosity, why is it that everyone gangs up on the Catholic Church, but not, let's say, Southern Baptists? Or Muslims? Or Hari Krishnas?

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They did gang up on the muslims. Or are you missing the Iraq war? Do you so easily forget the backlash against muslims after 9-11? That's nice.

Another time? How about the Catholic Church ganging up on everyone between 1100-1500? I guess it's excuseable when they did it.

The others take their shots also. The church happens to be the most visible in world matters so they tend to take the brunt of alot of it.

b

[whiskeytown]

When I was in Bible School, a cult had certain definitions that mainstream demoninations didn't

I couldn't recall all of them so I found some on here (http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/marksof.htm)

1. Extrabiblical Authority: All cults deny what God says in His Word as true. Cults have shifted their theological point of authority away from God's full and final written Word, the Bible, to their own unique, self-promoting opinions about the Bible; they generally will use parts of the Bible but will have their own unique scripture which is considered to be superior to the Bible. While some cult groups give token respect for the Bible and go through the motions of accepting the authority of Scripture, in reality, they honor the group's or leader's novel interpretation of Scripture as normative.

Definately - hell, they don't even want you reading the bible - only their priests can truly interpret it -

2. Works Salvation/Legalism: Cults teach that eternal life depends upon something other than the Atonement; i.e., faith in the atoning, finished work of Christ on the cross is deemed not to be sufficient (usually replaced with human works and human responsibility). Rather than relying on the grace of God alone for salvation, the salvation message of the cults always boils down to required obedience to, or abstention from, certain obligations and practices (some even including obedience to the Old Testament law).

Definately - the demands of Mortal sins, rituals/penance to pay for one sins - dependancy on Mary -

3. No Assurance of Salvation: The issue of a cult member's salvation is never settled, but is constantly affected by the changing circumstances of life; in this way, cult leaders are able to produce continued obligation and spiritual bondage, rather than spiritual freedom.

Yep - the church can claim to take away your salvation by merely excommunicating you or withholding communion.

4. Guru-Type Leader/Modern Prophet: The cult leader is looked to as the infallible interpreter of Scripture, specially appointed by God to be a special saint, guru, or contemporary messiah, and thereby, has divine authority that must not be violated. Cultists almost always quote their leader rather than the Bible. The cult's adherents often expound the virtues of the founders and seek to cover the founder's sins and wickedness.

The Pope - his decrees are infallible.

6. Exclusivity from/Denunciation of Other Groups: Each cult group, regardless of what other doctrines are taught, will all have this one common idea -- "The Only True Church Syndrome." The members of each specific organization have been taught that their church, organization, or community, is the only true group and that all other groups are false. The group's leaders will explain that it is impossible to serve God without being a member of the specific group. Moreover, when the cult leader announces himself as the true "Messiah," all others are declared to be dishonest, deceitful, and deluded, and must be put down; alternative views are denounced as being satanic and corrupt. Persecution is welcomed, and even glorified in, as "evidence" that they are being persecuted for righteousness sake. Thus, if a member decides to leave the group, they have been told that they are not simply leaving an organization, but rather they are leaving God and His only true organization. Hence, for a member of a cult who has been in a group for any length of time, the action of leaving the group is much more difficult than what most Christians understand. To leave the group is, in the minds of the cult member, tantamount to leaving God.

pretty much - Vatican II tried to gloss over this a bit, but to most hardcore Catholics - not being one = damned

7. Claims of Special Discoveries/Additional Revelation: Acceptance of new, contemporary, continual revelations that either deny the Bible or are allowed to explain it. The fundamental characteristic of Christianity is that it is historical, not dependent upon private knowledge and secret, unconfirmable relationships, while the almost universal basis of cult religion is the claimed exclusive revelation that one person has supposedly received. Rather than conforming to Biblical rules of evidence (2 Cor. 13:1), cult leader revelations almost always emanate from hallucinations, visions, dreams, private discoveries, etc. These new revelations often become codified as official written "scripture" of the cults (e.g., The Book of Mormon), and are considered as valid as that of the apostles (and even more relevant because they are given in these end times).

a little - lots of signs/miracles/visions - Fatima was told to have given prophecies of the end of the world in manifistations - not as bad as say, speaking in tongues in a pentacostal church though.

11. Erroneous Doctrines Concerning Life After Death and Retribution: Covering the gamut from soul sleep to annihilationism to purgatory to universalism to the progression to godhood, cults invariably deny the existence of a final judgment of, and a final "resting" place for, the unrighteous.

Purgatory is a purely Catholic doctrine - The good news is that you could pay the church to get a relative out of there sooner. Funny how that works /images/graemlins/grin.gif

13. Financial Exploitation: The cultic practitioner strongly implies that money contributed to the cause will earn the contributor numerous gifts, powers, and abilities, and in many cases, outright salvation.

See previous post - the selling of indulgences is still harped on by some Catholics - And of course, let's not forget - it's believed part of the reason the Catholic Church bans marriage amongst it's clergy is so that all the gold/worldly possessions acquired by an Archbishop in his lifetime goes back to the church and not to the family.

Overall, I'd say we're getting damn close to cult status. And this is using definitions written by mainstream Christianity, no less...

RB

[Stu Pidasso]

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They did gang up on the muslims. Or are you missing the Iraq war?


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The Iraq war is not an example of us ganging up on muslims. Our motivation for going to war had nothing to do with persecuting muslims.

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Do you so easily forget the backlash against muslims after 9-11? That's nice.


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There was more of a backlash against whites when the officers who beat Rodney King were found innocent than there was against muslims for 911.

Stu

[bernie]

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There was more of a backlash against whites when the officers who beat Rodney King were found innocent than there was against muslims for 911.

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This is debateable.

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The Iraq war is not an example of us ganging up on muslims. Our motivation for going to war had nothing to do with persecuting muslims.


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You're right. I was actually referring to a result of 9-11 along with attacking Iraq which many in the US targeted muslims in the backlash.

b

[vulturesrow]

You have a very superficial understanding of the Catholic Church. And the link you used is hilarious at best once you track it down to the root page.

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
When I was in Bible School, a cult had certain definitions that mainstream demoninations didn't

I couldn't recall all of them so I found some on here


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The Catholic religion has over 1 billion members, I think your stretching it a bit by saying they are not mainstream.

I can make up my own definitions on the marks of a cult to suit my own purposes. If I wanted I could claim the Methodist or Baptist are cults simply using the definition that a cult is any religion or sect with fewer than 1 billion members.

In the end it doesn't really matter what I do or believe. Its society that defines what is and what is not a cult. I'm catholic and its been my observation that society in general does not look upon me as a member of a cult. Thats not to say there isn't an occasional whackjob here or there who thinks I'm a cultist.

Stu

[JackWhite]

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I'm not fond of the Catholic Church, but I have far more respect for it than I do for the fundamentalist cesspool of American Protestantism.

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I am so glad to see tolerance is thriving again.

[bernie]

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And the link you used is hilarious at best once you track it down to the root page.

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And of course the links you tend to provide for your stances are from completely unbiased sources themselves.

b

[jack spade23]

The catholic church has some practices that non catholics could percieve as cult-like, however i dont believe that it is one. That said, i am pretty sure the op is intending to start a "catholics suck" atmosphere. Maybe i am wrong, (it happens a lot) however that is how i kinda percieved it.

[ACPlayer]

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an atheist credo is a cult.

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Do we have a ring on a finger, attached to a man, that we kiss?