Libertarian

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Could someone explain this term to me? I consider myself a liberal but have no clue if I am a liberatarian /images/graemlins/confused.gif.

[Greg J]

Libertarian in the U.S. refers to someone who supports less government in both civil and economic matters. This is also considered "liberal" in the (true) European sense.

The Libertarian Party in the U.S. likes to call itself "socially liberal, economically conservative."

Hope that helps.

[Eihli]

www.lp.org (http://www.lp.org)

[ACPlayer]

Libertarians are generally a group that is fed up with what they see in the government today, have not quite figured out the role of the govt in today's world, are generally want to be different, like the sound of the being socially liberal (its the guilt thing), believe it is cool to be fiscally conservative and generally wanted a label for all of the above.

You could also check out The libertarian party website (http://www.lp.org)

[Bob Moss]

[ QUOTE ]
This is also considered "liberal" in the (true) European sense.



[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know anything about European politics, but when you say "true", you are referring to some old usage of the word, not current, right? Because Europe and libertarian are two words I don't associate.

Bob

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
Re: Libertarian

[/ QUOTE ] That's the first thread I can remember where the word "LIBERTARIAN" was spelled correctly - and that includes threads started by libertarians. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Could someone explain this term to me? I consider myself a liberal but have no clue if I am a liberatarian.

[/ QUOTE ] Well, that didn't last.

[lehighguy]

Most libraterians support social liberties and low taxes/spending. Depending on the libertarian you talk to "low" has a different terminology. For instance I'm a libraterian, but I think the government should provide military, police, courts, certain large scale services the government can provide cheaper (think resevoirs), and a yearly educational voucher for children under the age of 18 (but not acutally run those schools). Some libraterians you talk to won't even support those programs, see some of natedogs posts.

A handy visual illustration is the 5-minute political quiz. Google it.

[lehighguy]

Though there are some differing views from liberterian to libertarian, I find they are quite clear on what they think governments role is. Much moreso then the regular parties.

[scalf]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif ..

being a libertarian is an excuse for rich people to keep all the money..

not needed in today's politics...just bribe the leaders..

jmho

gl

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/club.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ACPlayer]

From the LP website:

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Libertarians believe that you have the right to live your life as you wish, without the government interfering -- as long as you don’t violate the rights of others. Politically, this means Libertarians favor rolling back the size and cost of government, and eliminating laws that stifle the economy and control people’s personal choices.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds good but means little when it comes to the details of governing. Parties who are not involved in govt can make these high minded statements (like some "libertarian" posters here do, and then trot out all sorts of debatable and sometimes ludicrous contradictions). In fact people from both the Dems and The Reps would probably agree with this statements.

Normally people who make or believe in such pompous statements are people who wish for things and not people who can do things.

The devil is in the detail.

[lehighguy]

So what you saying is that you don't like libraterians because you either don't think they have the political power to carry out thier ideals, or that once in power they would become corrupt and act just like the Reps or Dems.

I suppose if you use the corruption arguement then all political parties with any political idealogy are immediately corrupt and debate about their stated goals meaningless. If that is really your believe why debate politics at all, there would be no way to construct an arguement that could pass the corruption defense. I could make a case why I think a Libraterian government would be less corrupt, but it could never meet the high standards of guranteed zero corruption you've presented here.

But I think it's much simpler then that. It's easy to attack repubs for thier hypocracy on civil rights. How can you be for small government and in bed with the religous right. Debating repubs is easy. Libraterians are harder. You can't attack them for hypocracy on civil rights so all that are left are economic policy differences. And here your left to defend your socialist big government idealogy in all its ugliness. Libraterianism is a threat because it gives people that believe in seperation of church and state but still reject your socialism a place to go. Dismissing it because it doesn't have a grand political following your ineffective corrupt mainline parties have is the only way to defend your believes, not idealogically.

[Felix_Nietsche]

The Libertarians are a small political party founded in Colorado in around the 1970s. Libertarians are for a VERY SMALL government and maximum social freedom.

This means that almost all govt social programs would be gone, drugs decriminalized, prostitution decriminalized, and taxes will be minimal. People would be free to do what the want (think Holland without the high taxes and punitive business laws).

[Greg J]

When I say true I mean it's real meaning. I am ABD in political science, and the real meaning of the word liberal is in the tradition of classical liberalism, not leftist politics.

[ACPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
So what you saying is that you don't like libraterians because you either don't think they have the political power to carry out thier ideals, or that once in power they would become corrupt and act just like the Reps or Dems.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I am saying is, that because they do not have to face the day to day problems of governing, so it is easy to proclaim high ideals (and the ideals I quoted are pretty much apple pie). When faced with hard choices of making decisions one actually sees what a party system is about.

I did not address corruption. I dont think that any of the politicians are corrupt, however, the constant race to raise money has made the process and the system corrupt.

It is easy to attack the republicans or the democrats because, being in the government they have to propose legislation and address issues. No issue is white and black, sot there are always many people unhappy with a decision. These days with the loud amplifier of the media resources available the sound can become a din of discontent with the govt.

If the LP were in power, there would be just as much of a din about how bad they are, becuase in the process of legislation they will piss off some group or the other.

[natedogg]

Libertarians are simply liberals who understand economics.

natedogg

[natedogg]

The same could be said for both major parties, who both often resort to high-minded rhetoric. Listen to Republicans talking about Iraq, or Democrats talking about "inequality".

As you say the devil is in the details, and when you get down to specific policies and proposals, the libertarians are coherent and intelligent and nearly always have a much better proposal/solution than the Dems and Republicans.

Pick any proposal policy or current law. The major parties are wrong nearly without exception.

natedogg

[thatpfunk]

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Libertarians are simply liberals who understand economics.


[/ QUOTE ]

and dont understand reality? Libs are great in hypotheticals, but so is communism...

[ACPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Libs are great in hypotheticals

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats it!

[lehighguy]

Example?

[natedogg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Libertarians are simply liberals who understand economics.


[/ QUOTE ]

and dont understand reality? Libs are great in hypotheticals, but so is communism...

[/ QUOTE ]

Comminism is *not* great on hypotheticals. Communism is a moral and practical disaster, even hypothetically.

natedogg

[TomCollins]

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Libertarians are simply liberals who understand economics.

natedogg

[/ QUOTE ]

nh sir